Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

xmodtwo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 1001 posts

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#351

Post by pessimizer »

viraptor wrote: post #82
n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>BLM >LGBT >counter culture Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance

Changing the colour of your logo on a certain date is not really "supporting". Corps gonna corp and if changing the logo and publishing some nice post brings more money, they'll do it. (While donating to Republicans at the same time)

How about donating tens of millions of dollars, and employing the incorporated versions of these movements as consultants and trainers?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#352

Post by noobermin »

Aromasin wrote: post #92
uniqueuid wrote: post #4

It's an interesting question, but way too simplistic. In his great book "the myth of digital democracy", Matthew Hindman pointed out what most people don't get: The web is becoming more centralized AND more spread out at the same time. Popularity is a scale-free distribution that gets more extreme over time. So we have counterculture, it's just not the large homogenous blobs that we were used to.

Maybe that's today's true counter culture; anti-consumerism and switching offline. Thousands of people do it daily - delete their Social Media accounts, stop sharing everything online, stop watching endless video streams, stop playing meaningless games, and just escape the marketers trying to make a quick buck from their identity. You're not worth targeting if they can't sell you anything. It's the first "silent" cou…

While this is true, the dominant culture does still exist. It exists the moment you lock your phone and talk to a real human.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#353

Post by scottLobster »

undersuit wrote: post #312
irrational wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.

Or no one feels like it's a change worth celebrating, whereas there's a strong streak of culture (particularly in more liberal areas) that makes congratulating trans people on their transition/gay people coming out of the closet a social obligation even if you're neither trans nor gay. It's almost gotten to the level of congratulating a couple for having an infant. If you don't think it's worth celebrating you're seen as an asshole.

My wife and I are fairly traditional in that I work full time and she's a housewife/mother. Most people are mildly surprised that she doesn't work, and there's definitely been the occasional awkward social interaction where she was clearly being judged by other women (notably non-parents) for that decision. This is in an extremely blue city, I imagine if we moved out even into the suburbs things would shift.

Counter-culture is location-dependent.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#354

Post by [deleted] »

irrational wrote: post #305
undersuit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#355

Post by BobbyJo »

irrational wrote: post #326
undersuit wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.

No, where I live you are considered to be a freak if you are religious. Announcing that you have joined a religion is like announcing you are trans in Alabama 50 years ago.

Would you have a high likelihood of experiencing physical violence or death for being religious where you live?

If not, then this is pointlessly hyperbolic.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#356

Post by Shared404 »

phkahler wrote: post #321
undersuit wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

>> LGBTQ is a minority Nope. The number of letters keeps increasing as more people are brought in. In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight.

Context: Am LGBTQ person who also has traditional religious views.

Big disagree. You carry a pride flag in the wrong parts of town where I am, you'll get beat up.

Walk around preaching hellfire and damnation and at most you'll get a lot of annoyed looks and at best you'll get people cheering you on.

> In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight.

In high schools in my town people get beat up for coming out. A friend who went to college out of state was mocked because people thought he was gay, despite him being straight.

Also, you appear to have a misconception of what the LGBTQ acronym includes.

LGBA - these are related to attraction. TI - These are for Trans/Intersex individuals and have nothing to do with attraction. Q - Questioning/Queer. Can be used by those who don't feel as though they are properly described by the above descriptions, or who are opposed to them for some reason.

There are other letters, but for the most part they are subsets/synonyms of the above labels, at least as far as the use case here is concerned.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#357

Post by no-dr-onboard »

rospaya wrote: post #271
ramesh31 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Trad chads: men pursuing lives of purity at any social cost. Staunchly opposed to todays hookup culture and LGBT influences. I see this becoming the norm in the future. Hook up culture is simply too dangerous (for both men and women) to be sustainable long term. It's a cultural hangover from the days of "free love" that simply does not map to the modern world anymore.

Sound like incels, not chads by choice.

IMO Incels tend to be people who would (if they could), at the first chance, jump at the opportunity to become sexually active. Additionally, incels tend to not value monogamy nor are strictly heterosexual. The inherent value of the individual they're pursuing is also different. This group tends to have a very low view of women (and men too, to some degree) as individuals with meaning, purpose, thoughts and emotions. There is a notable lack of care for personhood.

TC would be different in that the premise is opposite, that they're pursuing heterosexual monogamy and are voluntarily foregoing a life of sexual promiscuity in light of that pursuit. This group highly values the person they're pursuing and places a high degree of respect on the opposite gender.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#358

Post by MrRadar »

Jensson wrote: post #171
hutzlibu wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you believe gay people for example, are a threat to a healthy and balanced society? edit: Oh and conservative culture in my land means mostly lots of alcohol. The first time I vomitted from alcohol was as a teenager on a catholic wine fest, by wine gifted to us from the church. There might be conservatives, that are free from drugs, but mostly they just like other drugs. Drugs are a big problem in todays societ…

I think a lot of anti-gay thoughts today are more anti gay culture, such as many of the things people do and display in the pride parade that has nothing to do with liking people of the same sex.

So... by that argument isn't "gay culture" actually counter-cultural? As in it goes against the mainstream opinions held by a fairly conservative society?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#359

Post by thewrongthinker »

satao wrote: post #116
gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #52

[flagged]

Conservatism and traditional values can't be counter-culture since our society is based on them. It will never be counter-anything except progress.

In a sense I agree with you. What the person you are responding to is trying to say, I assume, is the new status quo is liberalism. As in lgbt, blm, van life, cannabis culture, casual dating, multiculturalism, secularism, etc.

I labelled the above idea space “liberalism” but I’m not convinced it’s the right term. I am just lacking a better one. In any case, if we assume the to be the status quo, which I think we mostly can, people trying to preserve these values and bolster them are conservative. They enjoy the status quo, wish to keep it and wish to reinforce it. They wish to prevent progress ( as in movement ) towards a different direction.

There is also another idea space, generally associated with christian identity, belief in God, the existence of two biological sexes with clear roles to fulfil, european heritage, abortion is murder, sex strictly within marriage, no homosexuality, gun rights, etc

This would be called conservatism. But, as in the “liberalism” mentioned above, it’s not really the best term. If we just take it as an idea space and assume liberalism to be the status quo, this would definitely be a counter culture.

It dislikes the current status quo, wishes to undermine it and shift it in a different direction.

And, in this sense, I agree with the person you responded too. “Conservative” is the new counter culture.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#360

Post by flangola7 »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

There are literal state laws being passed increasingly criminalizing the existence of being trans, right now especially any kind of trans healthcare for kids (some legislatures are looking to extend it to adults). There have been mass killings specifically targeting LGBT+ individuals. Even merely informing someone of the pronouns you go by is almost guaranteed to bring flaming and harassment on most online platforms, often including right here on HN.

I want to be charitable but it's hard to interpret this attitude as anything other than willful ignorance of very obvious facts.

Post reply on HN