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Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#351

Post by minerva23 »

khazhoux wrote: post #287

Jon Stewart's take is brilliant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSfejgwbDQ8&t=170s > "The name of the disease is printed on the lab's business cards!!" But the reason the Left in the US couldn't even consider Wuhan as the source, is because the Right (well, Trump himself) wanted to say that because it was " Chi na's fault", that his Administration bore no responsibility for dealing with it.

Doesn't it make sense to establish a lab near a source of what you're studying? You don't establish a tropical botany lab in Antarctica.

Left/right (false binary) politics aside, doesn't it make sense to focus on finding a solution prior to focusing on prevention/blame?

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#352

Post by pasquinelli »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #308
simiones wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthony Fauci has explicitly admitted on camera that the reason "masks don't work" was promoted to the public initially was to conserve PPE for the highest-risk health workers [0]. It was NOT a case of the science changing: > So, why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning? > "Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that…

But they explicitly told us that at the time: “don’t rush out and buy masks, we don’t have enough for healthcare workers as it is, you don’t need them more than they do.” The right just took some sound bites and excerpted the rest of the discussion to “prove” that Fauci was lying, while everyone else was rolling their eyes, and still are. People hear the things that support the story they want to believe, and then ig…

that's not how i remember it.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#353

Post by eloisius »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #299
lamontcg wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is being used as proof that they leaked it from a lab, when it is just how societies built like China behave. You can't infer anything from normal behavior. It is similar to the way that Hussein's actions in blocking access to presidential palaces was considered to be highly suspicious and therefore proof that he was hiding his weapons program. Turns out he was just trying to save face domestically by standing up…

Yeah, holding strong to the logic that's like a mom concluding of her kindergartner "You're being evasive, this means definitely that you're hiding something" is ridiculous. If the outbreak started in Colorado, and Russia wanted access to the CDC lab there, Americans (officials and public) would also be crying and screaming...

Firstly, we’re not talking about America right now. Even so, the US has its faults, but is vastly more transparent than the CCP. I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#354

Post by lobocinza »

underdeserver wrote: post #270
vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

Government officials are not one homogenous group, and neither are scientists. Please remember that most people who belong to one of those groups truly want to get to truth and improve our knowledge and lives.

If I'm to extrapolate my personal experience I'd say that most only care to look like that. All my respect to the real ones.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#355

Post by prof-dr-ir »

larryflint wrote: post #254
vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

Yep. I'm a case in point. At the beginning of this thing i went along with the mainstream narrative like a good sheeple. Now that i've watched how a narrative can go from 'your a crazy person to believe there COULD have been a lab leak' to 'yahhh it was probably a lab leak the whole time'...my faith has probably been permenantly destroyed in main-stream sources of information. Which sucks because idealy i just want t…

But you're incorrect? The lab leak theory is still widely considered to be an unlikely possibility.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#356

Post by pasquinelli »

oblio wrote: post #267
vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13624175

it's great to have a name for this.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#357

Post by enraged_camel »

jacquesm wrote: post #341

If this comment thread is the way the self proclaimed smartest forum on the web deals with articles like this then we're doomed. This article contributes zero actual evidence, is littered with out of context quotes (including of all places the title), doesn't appear to understand the science or the probabilities involved and finally is clearly written with an agenda. It shouldn't have been posted to HN in the first p…

I’m with you. 300+ comments as of this writing and most of the top ones are shitting on scientists and science in general…

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#358

Post by snthd »

emn13 wrote: post #296
vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

I think this view is overly negative. First of all, consider the timing of this all; this was super early days. People, including many experts, had much less facts then, and the topic was sensitive. I think it's perfectly reasonable and even necessary that ill-founded but hard-to-disprove theories such as the lab leak theory at the time are examined critically, but to do so requires a healthy debate - in particular,…

>I think this view is overly negative. First of all, consider the timing of this all; this was super early days. People, including many experts, had much less facts then, and the topic was sensitive.

I think you're missing that the lack of access to facts was a willful manipulation of the geography the "debate" took place on, which shows just what an effective strategy it was.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#359

Post by mcflibbles »

The scientist in question believes there is a 50% chance of it being a lab leak, according to the article text (down a bit from their initial estimate). The scientists didn't believe focusing on a debate over this possibility was worthwhile, knowing many would focus on this possibility instead of discussing actual action. Just as predicted, Trump, Fox, and the UK equivalent, the Telegraph, duly focus on the possibility of a lab leak and consistently argue against action. They say over and over again it will soon be over, it won't really do much harm, etc. Trump, Fox and the Telegraph are consistently proved wrong over and over again. Hacker news libertarian crypto idiots lap it up, and literally use the word "sheeple" to discuss everyone who's not part of their bizarre cult.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#360

Post by secretsatan »

jacquesm wrote: post #341

If this comment thread is the way the self proclaimed smartest forum on the web deals with articles like this then we're doomed. This article contributes zero actual evidence, is littered with out of context quotes (including of all places the title), doesn't appear to understand the science or the probabilities involved and finally is clearly written with an agenda. It shouldn't have been posted to HN in the first p…

And it's in the Telegraph
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