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Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

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Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#351

Post by asdff »

geysersam wrote: post #341
asdff wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because wealthier groups and individuals can afford to pay taxes that impoverished people can't? There are all kinds of subsidies for the poor today where wealthier people pay a higher price. There is precedent here for that.

> Because wealthier groups and individuals can afford to pay taxes that impoverished people can't? Yes, definitely. I could afford paying 50% tax on flights. Most people in the world could not pay 50% more for their transportation. The problem with a carbon tax is that it values all emissions equally. But on a global scale, some emissions are more essential than others. (Food, shelter, transportation to work etc)

That's the benefit of it isn't it? Its supposed to force paradigm shifts in how we fuel our supply chain. It's supposed to not maximize profit in the near term. It's not good that our most basic needs are so reliant on greenhouse gas emissions and if we continue to subsidize the emissions of this market with our health and ecology nothing will ever change.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#352

Post by asdff »

fleddr wrote: post #325
asdff wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumer behavior is the wrong animal to fight when its these massive industries that are polluting the world, wasting our water, and things like cryptocurrencies that consume as much electricity as a nation of consumers. Unplug your chargers, stop eating meat, stop flying, and its not going to change much when factories are still polluting the air with fossil fuels and industrial agriculture is selecting the most pr…

Got it, you take zero responsibility for your own behavior, it should remain unchanged and unchallenged, whilst you externalize blame to everything else. Said unsustainable industry you despise so much is the very thing making your luxury goods so cheap. Phone chargers waste more energy than the entire crypto industry, yet you're not outraged by it at all. You're not even willing to take the incredibly tiny action of…

Oh come on dude. Whats easier, what is even realistic, practically speaking: convincing the entire world to engage in a behavioral shift and hoping thats enough, or just taxing the heaviest polluters accordingly? There is a reason why politicians are looking into carbon taxes and not hiring gestapo to raid your home for unused chargers plugged into the walls.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#353

Post by twofornone »

dqx wrote: post #348
twofornone wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no point in having this discussion if you're continuously going to represent my words. 1. I said vast majority. I didn't day such people weren't present. These are not large groups to begin with. 2. Once again you are twisting the word "armed" to conflate flagpoles and bear mace with guns. My original point stands. You don't go about an insurrection in 2021 without bringing your guns. The rest of what you wro…

1. The vast majority were part of the far-right organizations, it was organized by far-right organizations. We have the evidence, we have their communications, they were stupid enough to post everything on social media, we have the video of their little hoodies and logos. 2. They were armed with flagpoles, knives, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, mace, and guns. Thank you for not even trying to continue pretending…

>The vast majority were part of the far-right organizations, it was organized by far-right organizations. We have the evidence, we have their communications, they were stupid enough to post everything on social media, we have the video of their little hoodies and logos.

You also have no basis for this claim. Yes, there were multiple contingents of so called "far right" (some/most of these groups are explicitly anti-authoritarian, as evidenced by the Gasden flag in addition to their public statements), but as I've said previously, these groups are not large enough to comprise the "vast majority". Most of these were trump supporters who attended a protest. If you want to argue that the named groups instigated the riot, that's certainly a reasonable position. But claiming that a substantial number of attendees belonged to these "far right" groups is at best unsubstantiated and at worst misinformation.

Further, if their communications contained any evidence of an attempted insurrection/coup, you would have seen corresponding convictions already. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of these communications consisted of politically themed shitposting anyway.

But we've veered quite far from the original subject, the argument that a lack of firearms is enough evidence to conclude that this was neither a coup nor an insurrection, but merely an impromptu riot spawned of a protest.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#354

Post by iskander »

joe_the_user wrote: post #277
iskander wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"designed so that there can be never be criminal justice consequences for any financial action" I don't see why that's true at all, cryptocurrencies are public ledgers with mostly KYC'd on/off ramps. You can pursue criminals, but it's harder to create collusion-based regulatory monopolies. Users of financial products have more choices through self custody and the diversity of decentralized financial products. The mer…

I don't see why that's true at all, cryptocurrencies are public ledgers with mostly KYC'd on/off ramps. Explain how bitcoin has become the go-to tool for ransomware gangs. Moreover, the intent of cryptocurrency creators and substantial number of cryptocurrency users is to be immune to regulation. You can read the number of posters here who view bitcoin as answer to the power of the Fed. Maybe crypto can be so control…

They use a shrinking pool of non-KYC off-ramps, recently they have been having worse luck at staying anonymous and their centralized exchanges are getting shut down. The era of crypto for ransomware is ending, the anonymity of the blockchain is a fading peculiarity of its early days. In practice, your transactions are even more traceable once enough of the centralized exchanges are brought into a regulatory framework and the bad actors are shut down (all happening now).

Recent news: * https://www.voanews.com/a/us-treasury-slaps-sanctions-on-cry...

* https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07/politics/colonial-pipeline-ra...

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#355

Post by geysersam »

asdff wrote: post #351
geysersam wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because wealthier groups and individuals can afford to pay taxes that impoverished people can't? Yes, definitely. I could afford paying 50% tax on flights. Most people in the world could not pay 50% more for their transportation. The problem with a carbon tax is that it values all emissions equally. But on a global scale, some emissions are more essential than others. (Food, shelter, transportation to work etc)

That's the benefit of it isn't it? Its supposed to force paradigm shifts in how we fuel our supply chain. It's supposed to not maximize profit in the near term. It's not good that our most basic needs are so reliant on greenhouse gas emissions and if we continue to subsidize the emissions of this market with our health and ecology nothing will ever change.

I agree with you that the whole economy needs to shift eventually. But as I see it, the most utilitarian way to reduce emissions would be to reduce the overconsumption of carbon emissions in the rich world. The market will not produce the "correct signal" to achieve this because of the enormous income disparity in the global economy.

Example: India vs Us carbon emissions per Capita is 4 times higher than India GDP vs Us GDP per Capita.

Any price increase on carbon will be felt 4x more by an Indian than by an American.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#356

Post by alentist »

NoGravitas wrote: post #27
jackt89 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will have your money's value stolen from you through inflation. You will be forced to consume. And you will be happy.

I don't know about you, buddy, but most people are forced to consume practically all of their income to keep their family fed and to keep a roof over their heads. Having savings that could be eroded by inflation is not really a relatable problem to have, in general.

You are extremely ignorant and misinformed.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#357

Post by mavhc »

lottin wrote: post #236
mavhc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only reason people jump on cryptocurrencies is their pyramid scheme type nature, get in first or lose out. They're not currencies, they're speculation. People want to spend currencies, why would you ever spend bitcoin when it's designed to always increase in value? Governments are their citizens, they're just people we picked. If you hate the people that are running, there's a built in solution, get someone better to…

The idea that a product (e.g. bitcoin) can be designed in such a way as to always increase in price has to be dismissed as crackpottery.

a) There's a limited supply of bitcoins b) The amount of bitcoin you get decreases as more are made c) The larger the network the more it costs to make a bitcoin d) Some bitcoin are deleted forever, accidentally.

So a) Bitcoins become harder to make, and b) The total possible number of Bitcoins goes down.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#358

Post by mavhc »

chowells wrote: post #289
mavhc wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Proof of Stake not cause the rich to grow richer?

The exact same way proof of purchase of massive bespoke mining rigs doesn't cause the rich to grow richer. The people making significant money from mining cryptocurrencies are the ones with multiple warehouse-scale operations filled with custom hardware. These people aren't getting rich, they were already rich. Moving to PoS just removes some middlemen, not changes the fundamental economics.

But there's not a massive economy of scale, and anyone can jump in and be at the same level as anyone else at that time.

If I have a million bitcoins because I got in on day 3, I don't have an advantage of making them today.

If I have a million PoS coins, because I got in on day 3, am I more likely to get more than someone who just started?

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#359

Post by dqx »

twofornone wrote: post #353
dqx wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The vast majority were part of the far-right organizations, it was organized by far-right organizations. We have the evidence, we have their communications, they were stupid enough to post everything on social media, we have the video of their little hoodies and logos. 2. They were armed with flagpoles, knives, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, mace, and guns. Thank you for not even trying to continue pretending…

>The vast majority were part of the far-right organizations, it was organized by far-right organizations. We have the evidence, we have their communications, they were stupid enough to post everything on social media, we have the video of their little hoodies and logos. You also have no basis for this claim. Yes, there were multiple contingents of so called "far right" (some/most of these groups are explicitly anti-a…

I agree, Trump supporters staged an armed, violent riot at the US Capitol. If you're so out of the loop you haven't seen the hours and hours of footage and social media evidence that shows that the vast majority of attendees were parts of far-right organizations, which organized the riot, I can't help you.

Thank you again for immediately dropping the idea that the police officers that died as a result died of unrelated causes, what a disgusting, gullible view to take of things. An argument in such bad faith it rivaled your "99.9% peaceful riot" one, you might want to look up what "peaceful" and "riot" mean.

Re: Cryptocurrencies’ Carbon Footprint Underestimated

#360

Post by dqx »

twofornone wrote: post #350
dqx wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The vast majority were part of the far-right organizations, it was organized by far-right organizations. We have the evidence, we have their communications, they were stupid enough to post everything on social media, we have the video of their little hoodies and logos. 2. They were armed with flagpoles, knives, baseball bats, fire extinguishers, mace, and guns. Thank you for not even trying to continue pretending…

One officer died of a stroke and the other four died of suicide. You have been mislead and are spreading misinformation by implying that they were killed by rioters. For all we know, some or all of them took their own lives because they agreed with the rioters but were forced to fight them. Blaming the rioters for their deaths is pure, biased speculation. Are you also blaming nationwide BLM riots for officer suicides…

Yeah, getting beaten in the head by a violent mob was probably unrelated to the officer's stroke. You're actually THAT gullible...luckily the medical examiner isn't.

Severe head trauma was unrelated to the suicides of the officers that otherwise acted normally before the "peaceful riot?" Bad faith arguments like that show you have no respect for their lives or the suffering their families are experiencing.

> Are you also blaming nationwide BLM riots for officer suicides

There were no officers that suffered severe head trauma in those riots and then committed suicide, so no. If you read the news you can learn more about that!

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