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Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

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Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#351

Post by tomc1985 »

cletus wrote: post #209

Good. I've been saying this awhile, most notably when Apple (of course followed by Google) introduced a discount on commission for smaller developers. This is completely backwards. I know why they did it. They wanted some positive PR that didn't cost them anything. Thing is, it's the larger publishers who are going to lobby regulators and challenge things in court. It's those same publishers who already have their ow…

What an incredibly shitty contract to be forced to sign.

Apple overstepped, and they are going to get reeled back.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#352

Post by barredo »

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

> The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice.

There's a choice of app store in Android and almost nobody uses Amazon App Store, F-Droid, Samsung App Store and so on. It's great that they can exist, but I don't think the Mac App Store (which has been neglected since day 1) offers any guidance.

People mostly use what they know or are giving by default. In desktop, be it Windows, Linux or macOS, people aren't used to app stores.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#353

Post by realusername »

akmarinov wrote: post #303
realusername wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be complete suicide by Apple & Google though...

How so? They’ll lose just the SK market, that’s not even in the top 5 of markets for them.

That would trigger a wave of countries who would like to imitate that by creating local competitors. If they fail so badly in korea, every country will want to replicate that.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#354

Post by djrogers »

wilde wrote: post #115
speg wrote: post #30

I really hope they implement this somehow that allows the same processes to exist. e.g., manage all subscriptions from one location, cancel subscriptions without losing time remaining (hello Creative Cloud!), and the entire parental control process.

Managing all subscriptions from one location is great, but Apple already exempts themselves from cancelling subscriptions without losing time remaining. I expect most of these to go away as processors compete for app business.

> Apple already exempts themselves from cancelling subscriptions without losing time remaining.

That hasn’t been my experience - do you have a cite for that?

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#355

Post by orangepanda »

ehsankia wrote: post #207
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree that this app stores market abuse thing needs to end, and I am also really glad to see that at least one country is responding like this. > a reasonable (single percentage) fee for facilitating payments. I want to point out, though, that the service Apple provides is not merely payment processing. They offer total customer management. Which, when integrated with their entire developer offering (Test…

Sure but the point is that developers should have the option of rolling out their own solution if they don't need all the features Apple provides or agree with the fee. This in turn creates competition which may reduce rates all around.

> if [developers] don't need all the features

Some “features” are seen only by customers, e.g., managing all your subscriptions in one place. I can think of some services that would LOVE making cancelling a subscription more difficult.

I don’t care about apple’s cut. Allowing sideloading instead would have been a win win for everyone

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#356

Post by passivate »

simondotau wrote: post #63
ethbr0 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers (and users) deserve choice . If you want to pay 30% to Apple to take care of that for you, then you should be able to. If someone else doesn't want to pay 30% to Apple, then they should have that right too. I've lived through both fragmented platforms and unified platforms, and I'll take the former any day. They're messy, but fair and dynamic. And critically, they evolve and allow new competition to emerge…

> If someone else doesn't want to pay 30% to Apple, then they should have that right That right? Are you saying developers should have the right to all of Apple's stuff for free, no matter what? Is Apple not allowed to distribute their tools and libraries under a license of their choosing? Should we ignore licenses altogether? Perhaps I don't want to pay the "cost" associated with use of a GPL-licensed library in my…

We need to re-define what 'rights' mean in a digital age. The ideas of property rights from the 1800's are vaguely applicable in digital contexts.

Ultimately, we are the creators of the society we live in, so if we don't think laws are working for everyone, we should change them. We have tons of laws against price gouging, preventing businesses from fleecing customers, etc. Apple grabbing 30% of sales of a company is not something I support.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#358

Post by judge2020 »

wvenable wrote: post #306
judge2020 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common argument against that is that the 30% also goes to actually developing iOS - you could envision the margin Apple makes on every iPhone as one that goes towards the R&D costs of developing the hardware, while the post-sale revenue goes towards the post-sale costs of developing iOS (and all the updates they test/push out for 5+ years after the device is released).

> The common argument against that is that the 30% also goes to actually developing iOS How were operating systems funded before vendors could take a cut of every transaction?

They didn’t receive updates. Now Windows pushes ads in the OS as a mechanism of recouping the cost of developing and testing updates for old hardware.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#359

Post by ComputerGuru »

makecheck wrote: post #316

The Mac App Store gives a hint at what would happen if there was any choice. The amount of software actually available for the Mac is far, far greater than what’s listed in the store. Furthermore, while some quality and notable apps are still in the Mac App Store, many well-known apps are not there. The number of lousy apps is also extremely high every time I go to search or just look at the front page, to the point…

The Mac App Store came after there was a thriving ecosystem for Mac apps online/organically and without a middle man, and it provided close to zero value for developers on top of that. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison.

Re: Apple and Google must allow other in-app payment systems, Korean law declares

#360

Post by wdb »

vbezhenar wrote: post #251
wdb wrote: post #237

I am fine with them allowing other payment systems. As long its not OR OR so if apps start to avoid using the built-in payment solution of Apple and Google then I see it as a negative. I can't think of needing to use like Paypal to pay for in-app purchases or something for app X and use stripe for app Y and use iDEAL for app Z. In those cases its better to avoid the app and that's even ignoring app developers getting…

Are you ready to pay 30% premium for using Apple payment system?

Well, if it makes it easy to cancel a subscription or get a refund. Sure. And yes, if I don't need to use Paypal I am happy to pay a 15-30% premium.

I am worried that using other payment systems make it much harder to achieve that.

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