Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 461 posts

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#351

Post by nextlevelwizard »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #308
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to pay more for larger apartment just so I can have dedicated office room and exact same argument goes both ways. I live 20minutes away from my office, that is by choice. I was even considering moving closer (so I could ditch car to a bike or maybe even walk) here I read that every one has 2-3 hour commute, that is on YOU and YOUR poor choices.

> I don't want to pay more for larger apartment And thats a perfectly valid choice that you should be allowed to make. If you want to work at an office, you would make sure during the hiring phase that your employer agrees and provides that office to you. If the employer says that you HAVE to work from home, that is a factor that you should consider when accepting the job offer.

Yes. Exactly. Just like if remote work is no option people who need it can consider something else. I've always had option to do both, so on days where it is beneficial for me to work from home I can still do that (like if I'm expecting a delivery), but I rather be at the office as per the reasoning in previous comments. There are many companies and many employees. I don't get why so many people are angry that I liked the pre-covid situation.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#352

Post by efficax »

grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

The company i work for makes absurd profits and has hundreds of millions of dollars of just cash on hand, even after reinvestment. I helped create that value (and frankly a large amount of it actually). Why shouldn't i get compensated accordingly? I also think the laborer should be paid better, btw

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#353

Post by xtracto »

aix1 wrote: post #345
genezeta wrote: post #225

I'm doing interviews now and, naturally, the question comes up. Am I looking for a remote position? Would I mind that the position is only partially so? Or that it is fully on-site? Obviously it's just anecdotal data , and I'm in Europe. So take this with a grain of salt, but I'd say: * There has undoubtedly been a big rise in remote positions, but not a huge one. Many of these seem to come from companies willing to…

I'm curious about the practicalities of the employer being based in one country and the employee, another. Furthermore, let's say they're not both in the EU as that would simplify things. What are the practicalities in terms of employment law, taxation etc. I understand that every situation is unique and am looking for personal experiences/anecdotes rather than generalisations.

This is alreasy solved by PEOs (professional employment orgs) who take care of all the employment bureaucracy for you. They are a booming business like Globalization Partners, Via.work among several others.

They are good for the company because they streamline hiring people in other countries and they are good for the employee because they provide all employnent requirements by law in their country.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#354

Post by goldenkey »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #274
goldenkey wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, you lack the self-discipline to be satisfied with your choices, and prefer to be enlisted in some type of nanny service? Cool, I'll opt out and instead focus on bettering my defecits so I don't need to outsource my mental fortitude.

Lol, seeth more

I know I didn't tell you what you want to hear. Independence will help you. God forbid there is a cataclysmic event, you will have thanked me for putting the boot up your ass.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#355

Post by aix1 »

xtracto wrote: post #353
aix1 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about the practicalities of the employer being based in one country and the employee, another. Furthermore, let's say they're not both in the EU as that would simplify things. What are the practicalities in terms of employment law, taxation etc. I understand that every situation is unique and am looking for personal experiences/anecdotes rather than generalisations.

This is alreasy solved by PEOs (professional employment orgs) who take care of all the employment bureaucracy for you. They are a booming business like Globalization Partners, Via.work among several others. They are good for the company because they streamline hiring people in other countries and they are good for the employee because they provide all employnent requirements by law in their country.

In this model, what's the worker's status in the eyes of the organisation requiring their services?

Am I right thinking they're more of a temp-vendor-contractor variety than a full-time employee?

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#356

Post by benhurmarcel »

fuzzylama wrote: post #304
woutr_be wrote: post #214

My company (a large multinational bank) (about 100K employees) introduce their "future way of working" back in April. This came after most of our offices in different regions working from home due to covid. Much to my surprise, this was actually pretty well thought out. This new way, would give people the flexibility to choose wether they work from the office or work from home, or even combine both. (They also offere…

What is that 750 USD supposed to cover? - Monitor - PC/ laptop - desk - chair ... either one of those things can cost as much as that

That’s still $750 more than most companies.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#357

Post by linspace »

grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

People sometimes complain about how much elite sport athletes make and I usually answer that it's great and a model to follow because workers capture a good part of the value of their work. We should not regulate to make their salaries go down (apart from taxing appropriately).

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#358

Post by midrus »

jasonkester wrote: post #188
midrus wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same salary despite where you are living is really unfair. I live in Italy and with a silicon valley salary here I'd be millionaire. It just won't work, companies would find equally qualified people for less money and long term we would all have to move to cheaper places.

Fair isn't what we're optimizing for. The goal is to have knowledge work cost the company the same regardless of where they source it. So yes, it's true that your cost of living in rural Italy is less than it would be were you to move to an apartment in Palo Alto, and that there will remain a surplus after you have accounted for those expenses. But I'd prefer a world where that surplus was captured by you rather than…

Jump down your ego horse man.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#359

Post by higeorge13 »

aix1 wrote: post #346
higeorge13 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gross salaries for juniors is usually in the range of 20k annually, in certain companies or software (slave) houses even less. For seniors it should be around 40k. For lead or principals, even managers, around 60k. Consider that net salaries might reach 60% of gross for certain amounts and above (e.g. 60 gross is 36 net). And of course, these are anecdotal data, probably covering 99% of local companies. My current sa…

Are the amounts in your post in Euros or some other currency?

Correct, i forgot the currency. It’s EUR.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#360

Post by smorgusofborg »

caskstrength wrote: post #348
smorgusofborg wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in a team that has multiple "remote" people since before pandemic. When I was in a similar position, I regularly worked in groups who gave me every indication the majority would vote to relocate all positions to in-office in California. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be hopping groups after each vote while the team was telling me how wonderful the west coast is. It was better that my role was negotiated an…

But it does affect me! Last time when I was looking for a new job I had a requirement that it must be either remote-friendly or have the office in walking distance to my home, which significantly reduced the choices for me. I really hope that pandemic will result at least some empowerment of teams to chose their preferred way to work.

According to the article you can now apply to 75% of jobs. I don't know why you want teams empowered to vote on what you are allowed to do, that is like looking for a new source of irrational barriers. If you would rather have holocracy, etc as a form of organization than sure, maybe it will reach more efficient decisions. But little artificial groupings of people with no other structure vote for things that are illegal in a republic sense or in this case an employment sense.
Post reply on HN