Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0% • Hacker News Board

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#351

Post by zaarn » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

rasz wrote: post #349

zaarn wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the point of a competitive game if you could just cheat? Racing games like Trackmania live off verifying people don't cheat because it's a game where people compete for leaderboards. Should they not be allowed to prevent you from cheating yourself to the top of the leaderboard.

Games like Trackmania should have SERVER SIDE data input validation instead of pushing rootkits.

They do in fact verify server side that everything is where it should be. But it doesn't stop people because ultimately the inputs of a high level player in Trackmania are nearly indistinguishable from inputs of a bot playing the track.

CS:GO faces the same issue where inputs by high level players are indistinguishable from cheating.

Speedrunning tends to have similar issues, where people perform tricks that are so close to TAS inputs that it can take years to spot an issue. Or in case of Dream, it takes an entire statistics paper to explain why they cheated. In those cases it's even worse because you cannot do server side validation on video data.

Being against anti-cheat is effectively being against competitive gaming or speedrunning.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#352

Post by Zambyte » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 11:16 AM UTC

trasz wrote: post #172

Zambyte wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the ones that don't have crazy requirements already work fine. Unfortunately a lot of people don't care about running malware (see: the % of people who still use Windows). Lots of those people would be more likely to switch if they could run their malware on GNU/Linux.

How does the anti-cheat malware suddenly stop being malware when run under Linux?

They don't. People who are conditioned to want to run malware will be more likely to switch off they are able to run their malware of choice though.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#353

Post by junon » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #224

weare138 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it sucks but ultimately it's the user's decision and Proton will allow the porting of other Windows apps. If you can use it to run a AAA game it could easily handle business apps. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say they'd switch to Linux but can't because it doesn't run [ insert some Windows app here ]. It's a net gain for Linux adoption.

It’s not the users decision though. They don’t even realize this creepy software gets installed and they don’t know what it does

To be entirely fair, with BattleEye it's 100% clear to the user it's being installed. They have a pop up for every game that uses it that states it's to be installed if they click 'OK'.

But not all anti-cheat software does this, even those that install drivers, and it's not always clear.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#354

Post by iFreilicht » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #169

msravi wrote: post #30

I made Linux Mint the primary OS on my son's first laptop some 3-years ago when he was around 12, and he's taken to it like a fish to water. He's even taken to using regolith as his (tiling) window manager now, and prefers to use vim for programming (python/julia/c) rather than any IDE. Also have Mint installed on my mom's laptop - she only uses the browser and is ok with it - she has no idea of what an OS even is. I…

Any time I have a family member who asks me to 'fix a problem' with their machine, my first step is to copy all important files, and then evaluate their use of the machine. 99.9% of the time, they use it for e-mail, internet browsing, and maybe home banking. I put mint on everyone's machines and don't look back. It's just so stupid easy, and has drastically reduced the 'tech calls' I receive. At this point, I have no…

Marketing and pre-installation on devices. Seriously ChromeOS and chromebooks have been gaining huge marketshare, Linux could've been that if there was any player interested and wealthy enough to put on a similar campaign to what google did.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#355

Post by DynamicStatic » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

gentleman11 wrote: post #224

weare138 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it sucks but ultimately it's the user's decision and Proton will allow the porting of other Windows apps. If you can use it to run a AAA game it could easily handle business apps. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say they'd switch to Linux but can't because it doesn't run [ insert some Windows app here ]. It's a net gain for Linux adoption.

It’s not the users decision though. They don’t even realize this creepy software gets installed and they don’t know what it does

Oh yeah, except that big nice pop up.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#356

Post by DynamicStatic » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #268

feanaro wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agreed. Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? Sounds absurd when you put it in proper terms, that is someone else taking control over your computer.

> Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? No idea. Who cares if some random guy cheats really? It's nothing compared to losing our computing freedom. Actual important stuff that matters. Same fundamental issue as DRM which nearly everyone agrees is bad. Our computers are ours and game companies just need to deal with it. If people are gonna cheat, then so be it.

Don't wanna have anti cheats installed? Don't play (online) games, noone is forcing you, for me I'm really happy i have the option on Linux in the future.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#357

Post by DynamicStatic » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #341

matheusmoreira wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should recognize the fact that it's impossible to prevent cheating and stop shipping malware to users in an fruitless attempt to do so.

But it's not impossible to prevent cheating. CS:GO has a very low occurence rate of cheating as most cheaters are caught extremely early by anti-cheat or later by other anti-cheat efforts with more complex functionality.

CSGO actually have a lot, overwatch or valorant are way better examples.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#358

Post by DynamicStatic » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #331

k12sosse wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree but if you accept the EULA that states otherwise, doesn't that mean you don't have the prerogative? It sounds like you want to skip over the EULA, isn't respecting licensing models a huge thing for Linuxheads? Honest question.

> doesn't that mean you don't have the prerogative? It means I've agreed not to cheat. I have the power to do it, I just agreed not to use it. I won't let them take my power away though. > isn't respecting licensing models a huge thing for Linuxheads? Personally I'm not a fan of intellectual property in general. Licenses included. They all depend on copyright which should be abolished. The only thing that makes any s…

A lot of cheating just can't realistically be detected on the server.

Feel free to not play those games that requires anti cheats and let the ones of us who likes having it enjoy a game with less cheaters.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#359

Post by DynamicStatic » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

83457 wrote: post #295

jjice wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, and most of us here at HN will probably agree, tons of people don't care, and that's clear by how many people play games that require it.

I care, but what is the alternative? I play on a computer that I use for little else, but most people out there can't do that. Most competitive games would just not exist on PC without anti-cheat software and highly competitive games need intrusive software. It is really ridiculous that it is necessary but people suck. Although there are all sorts of attempts at server-side and even player anti-cheat hardware devices…

South Korean approach, bind your real id to the game, cheat and end up with a fine irl.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#360

Post by DynamicStatic » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 6:42 AM UTC

fud7r7rgtf wrote: post #216

ruined wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the alternative is server-side rendering of every frame, which would introduce unacceptable latency to input and also likely significantly reduce graphical detail, given the existing huge investments in consumer rendering hardware that have not yet been duplicated serverside google stadia exists. nobody playing competitively uses it, and that's exactly the demographic that cares the most about anti-cheat and,…

Speaking as an avid Stadia user, I think this has a lot more to do with Stadia's library being garbage compared to the non-Stadia options. I can't imagine a reason an e-sport pro would want to go from the entire competitive ecosystem as a choice to just what's on Stadia. Even for casually competitive players, there's a massive lack of mainstream competitive titles on Stadia. Maybe the latency input is the problem but…

I'm very much a competitive fps player, i have low latency to the closest stadia server and I'll tell you: It's absolutely unplayable for me due to the input lag. I'm normally in top 1-2% and on stadia I'm closer to top 30% it's a huge difference.