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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#351

Post by shmel »

flexie wrote: post #270
shmel wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it relevant? So far nobody forces me to take birth control and threatens for exclude me from the society if I refuse to do so (UK wants to require vaccine passports to go to cinema, for example). Nobody paints me as stupid anti-vaxxer if I just say I don't want to take BC pills. Nobody tells me that I won't be able to travel unless I agree to take BC.

I am a guy, so maybe I don't know what I am talking about. But I have a strong suspicion that the consequences for young women that chose not to take birth control pills can be felt as well and that they often feel quite a pressure from friends, boyfriends, parents, etc. to take the pill.

I am sorry, this is the whole other level. First of all, you are not obliged to discuss your medication with friends or parents. Second, your reply is pretty much like:

>> In China you disappear if you publicly say bad things about CCP.

> Yeah, I know what you mean, I called somebody motherfucker and got banned on HN. Freedom of speech is nowhere these days.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#352

Post by xiphias2 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #338
xiphias2 wrote: post #213

Why didn't they stop the vaccinations in women under age of 60/65? I'm a 40 year old man, if I were a woman I wouldn't take J&J or AstraZeneca, but as I'm a man, I think it's worth to take the risk of the side effects of the vaccination.

Many more people will die as a result of stopping vaccination than they will of alleged side effects to some vaccines.

They are not alleged at this point, they are real, and we have enough data that proves it. Using a language that pretends that vaccines can't have lethal side effects is just dividing people farther. It's all about the risk-reward calculation, which is still on the vaccine's side for most people.

For a 18 year girl though it may be better to wait 2 weeks more for the Moderna / Pfizer vaccine in lockdown at home than to take the J&J or AstraZeneca. As an example my parents did the same thing (watching TV and using the elliptic machine for training, waiting 2-3 weeks more than their friends who got the Chinese vaccine).

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#353

Post by ivalm »

viklove wrote: post #317
Moto7451 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not the difference the parent is asking about. He’s asking if the adenovirus based vaccines available are meaningfully different. Reaching beyond the parent’s words, both AstraZeneca and J&J have now had issues with blood clots. If it’s a similar formulation then perhaps you’ve found something and Adenovirus vaccines with a different formulation are unaffected. If they’re very different then perhaps other vari…

The mechanism of delivery isn't a meaningful difference? Okay, if you just want to ignore half of the equation be my guest.

They are comparing jj and astro zeneca, both use adenovirus delivery. Albeit very different variants.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#354

Post by kaczordon »

tylerhou wrote: post #340
kaczordon wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True corrected it to “gene-based”, both jnj and astra use DNA encoding btw.

But neither have the ability to alter your DNA, so they are unlikely to be able to cause long-term symptoms though a gene-expression mechanism.

Right but they are still gene-based. No gene-based vaccine has ever received approval for human use, and the present coronavirus vaccines have not undergone preclinical testing as normally required by international regulations.

A potential danger of DNA-based vaccines is the integration of plasmid DNA into the cell genome (1). Insertional mutagenesis occurs rarely but can become a realistic danger when the number of events is very large, i.e. as in mass vaccination of a population.

(1) https://www.nature.com/articles/3302213

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#355

Post by laplacesdemon48 »

ipaddr wrote: post #298
dahfizz wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds a bit like a technicality. The DNA makes it into the cell nucleus and is used by the cell machinery to make proteins. The changes aren't carried over after cell division, but lots of cells in your body last your whole life (nerves, brain cells, eye cells, important stuff).

I was under the impression all cells in the body will be regenerated in 7 years.

Loss of neurons and cardiac muscle cells is permanent. Emergency medical personnel are usually taught "time is brain" and "time is heart" for this reason.

Some body cells can bounce back after serious trauma, liver cells being a prime example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2701258/

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#356

Post by ineedasername »

6 cases doesn't seem high enough to rise above the baseline incidence rate that I would expect for a population of millions that have received the vaccine.

The reported data simply doesn't explain stopping use of this vaccine. It seems like either:

1) They are overreacting based on sparse data, which will cast doubt on the validity of their actions.

2) There is information being withheld that implicates, though perhaps without certainty, that the vaccine is the specific cause of these issues.

Either way, the net result will be more distrust & greater reluctance to get vaccinated. There has to be a better way to handle this problem.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#357

Post by MockObject »

cujo wrote: post #337
hedora wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The US is apparently already at ~50% antibodies, not counting vaccination. So, there’s a floor on the upside of the vaccine: It did no more than halve deaths. We’re in the middle of a surge, and it looks like most of the remaining 50% will end up catching covid before being vaccinated, so the percentage saved by vaccination will continue to drop. The ideal strategy without hindsight was conventional wisdom: Pro…

I suspect a lot of folks learned (in the US) is that if you have a president who politicizes a pandemic and shits the bed on leadership, the populous is screwed. Let's not pretend that rational discourse was ever an option, and the media isn't the place for blame.

I don't know. Seems like a sane, sober, professional, mature, and objective media would go quite far in moderating the overheated partisan rhetoric from politicians.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#358

Post by HillRat »

StavrosK wrote: post #252
HillRat wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we know adenoviruses interfere with the coagulation cascade through FX binding, so it’s well worth taking a pause and taking a closer look into what’s going on. With two well-tolerated and safe mRNA vaccines in the market, we can afford — to a degree! — to put Ad-based vaccines through additional scrutiny, especially since they’re likely to be the primary vaccine type on a global level.

> With two well-tolerated and safe mRNA vaccines in the market, we can afford — to a degree! — to put Ad-based vaccines through additional scrutiny This assumes that we have enough safe vaccines, which we wildly don't.

Yeah, that “to a degree” is US-centric and, even then, doing a lot of work — in the US, J&J is probably about 1/3 of the total vaccinations when accounting for the prime/boost mRNA protocol, so even here it’s a mess, and we’re in much better shape than the rest of the world.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#359

Post by UncleOxidant »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #348
UncleOxidant wrote: post #309

John Campbell suggested on his video the other day that perhaps this is happening because some injectors are not aspirating. What that means is that when an intramuscular injection is given you want to ensure that it goes into the muscle and not into a vein. So the proper way to do this is for the person doing the injection to first pull out the syringe (after it's been stuck into the arm) a bit to make sure there's…

That's interesting to know. When I got my Pfizer jab, the lady said "oops, I did it wrong" and blood came out. She didn't jab me again though and I just assumed it was good to go. Should she have done it again at a different site? I was told elsewhere that it doesn't make the vaccine any less effective, but I'm curious what others on here think now...

As I understand it the concern isn't effectiveness so much as potential for side effects. An intramuscular injection is meant to stay pretty much in a small area of muscle tissue. If it goes into the vein the vaccine then travels into tissues all over the body.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#360

Post by fastball »

ABeeSea wrote: post #289
kaczordon wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm maybe because the blood clot issue is being underreported because no one is looking for it? We’re essentially doing mass experimentation with gene-based vaccines on the US population, all the vaccines use either mRNA or DNA insertion. Caution here is the logical and ethical thing. Also: the side effect profile for the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the clinical trials was far WORSE than the jnj vaccine. Edit: gen…

This is sensationalism and fear mongering. The type of blood clots (low platelet) the J&J causes gets worse with the standard treatment of blood thinners. This was on the CDC call this morning.

I don't think causality has been demonstrated, no?
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