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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#271

Post by kaczordon »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #230

Okay so I want to make something very clear here. The rule is to put it very very simply, is you can ship any drug that is approved but you have to list the side effects. This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. This will get paused long enough for the side effects to be updated and then used again. The arguments about “well the birth control pill has a higher risk” are usi…

Umm maybe because the blood clot issue is being underreported because no one is looking for it? We’re essentially doing mass experimentation with gene-based vaccines on the US population, all the vaccines use either mRNA or DNA insertion. Caution here is the logical and ethical thing.

Also: the side effect profile for the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the clinical trials was far WORSE than the jnj vaccine.

Edit: gene-based not gene-therapy

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#272

Post by zests »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #230

Okay so I want to make something very clear here. The rule is to put it very very simply, is you can ship any drug that is approved but you have to list the side effects. This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. This will get paused long enough for the side effects to be updated and then used again. The arguments about “well the birth control pill has a higher risk” are usi…

Whether or not this is true, that is not what the messaging is.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#273

Post by viklove »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #244

Well this seems stupid. The thing I'm trying to understand is whether Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca are meaningfully different. All the media just assumes they are (until proven equivalent), but is the genetic code publicly known so we can compare? The Pfizer and Moderna ones are extremely similar. Now, I imagine the adenovirus ones have an order of magnitude more genetic material, but is the code publicly know t…

Yes, they are meaningfully different. For one, Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines, while J&J and AZ are not.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#274

Post by justapassenger »

spazrunaway wrote: post #236
conistonwater wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, that doesn't sound quite right: the benefit of taking the vaccine goes not only to you, it's also to the people you would have otherwise infected by spreading the virus yourself.

Put your life on the line for the community, comrade! And sign away your right to legal recourse should you die as a result. You're on your own! You owe the community your life, and the community owes you nothing!

Feel free to move to deserted island and have 0 contact with rest of human race if concept of community is so offensive to you.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#275

Post by chrisandchris »

barsonme wrote: post #243
myrandomcomment wrote: post #230

Okay so I want to make something very clear here. The rule is to put it very very simply, is you can ship any drug that is approved but you have to list the side effects. This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. This will get paused long enough for the side effects to be updated and then used again. The arguments about “well the birth control pill has a higher risk” are usi…

I don’t understand why you have to pause then restart. Just update the side effects as you go. Or pause for the affected groups.

I guess it‘s protocol. The same protocol that states that you need to list side-effects probably says if your side-effect list is wrong you have to re-list and get approved again. Until your approval is not done you don‘t get to sell.

Otherwise you could delay your updating your side-effects listing because you know FDA will take your druf off-market (and this delay will/could cause harm to people).

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#276

Post by [deleted] »

bilbo0s wrote: post #254
xiphias2 wrote: post #213

Why didn't they stop the vaccinations in women under age of 60/65? I'm a 40 year old man, if I were a woman I wouldn't take J&J or AstraZeneca, but as I'm a man, I think it's worth to take the risk of the side effects of the vaccination.

Now you have the logistical challenges of shipping 2 vaccines to some small town. One for the men, another for the women. Additionally, that town needs the not insubstantial refrigeration capabilities anyway. So what’s the point if you’re a public health admin? Just get the moderna or Pfizer and save yourself and your staff a lot of headache. The logistical benefits of J&J mean that it’s only logistically beneficial…

[deleted]

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#278

Post by endisneigh »

allturtles wrote: post #265
endisneigh wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "high standard" to begin with. J&J is paused because there are alternatives that don't have clotting to the same degree. A comparison with birth control makes no sense. Is there some magical birth control that's used orders of magnitude more (Pfizer) and orders of magnitude safer with respect to blood clotting and also prevents pregnancy? No? Then the comparison is stupid.

There currently isn't enough vaccine to meet demand. Pausing J&J distribution will cause a larger gap between supply and demand. The 7 day average of deaths from Covid in the U.S. is 985. Even a week's delay in getting to full deployment of the vaccine thus means thousands of deaths.

What would need to happen in your view to justify pausing vaccinations for even a single day?

IMO that lack of caution is why the USA is in this situation to begin with.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#280

Post by splithalf »

carnivalWilson wrote: post #246
laplacesdemon48 wrote: post #103

Both the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines use an adenovirus to deliver DNA instead of mRNA wrapped in lipid (like Moderna & Pfizer). Everywhere I read about the J&J vaccine, I see something like "the DNA vaccine doesn't alter your DNA". Can somebody please clear this up? As far as I understand, the mRNA just stays in the cytoplasm of the cell and gets used up by the ribosome to create spike proteins. The adenovirus vecto…

I'm a bioengineer. Everyone that gives an answer mostly ignores epigenetics and the fact that RNA can permanently alter the _shape_ (or conformation) of how your DNA is tightly wound up. For example, RNA can direct methylation of DNA and alter histones, which can lead to transgenerational epigenetic effects on gene expression and phenotype [1]. The fact is, molecular cell biology is incredibly complex and the models…

Everything in life has potential epigenetic effects! Not sure what you are trying to communicate with your comment but it sounds like you are saying people should avoid the mRNA vax but then you also say “almost certainly no long term effects.” Your thesis seems to be that 10 years is enough time to know for sure that they are safe. Why is 10 years the right amount of time? Why not 50 years or 5? In other words what’s your model for relative risk/reward and why is it better than what is being done in terms of public health outcomes?
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