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8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

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Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#351

Post by Can_Not »

mikelyons wrote: post #292
stefco_ wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Men are still, to a huge extent, discouraged from sharing and expressing their emotions as much as women (since that behavior is seen as inherently feminine). People still make fun of guys for crying and other healthy ways of expressing distress. The "strong silent type" still seems to be many people's masculine ideal. This is exacerbated on hate-filled sites like 4chan and 8chan, where guys who express feeling…

The moment that sharing weakness actually turns women on and attracts them sexually, is the moment that the societal discouragement of weakness in men will evaporate.

You say that as if it's not males enforcing stereotypical toxic behaviour.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#352

Post by BoiledCabbage »

irvwash wrote: post #301
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about that for a min. Racism is allowed, but not Spam. They will allow Racism, but actively moderate out Spam. What type of joke is this? There is no hiding behind it, they intentionally and actively allow it to become a breeding ground for violent racists. It's like what in the world did you guys imagining Al Qaeda recruiting msg boards l look like. "No Al Qaeda msg boards have people claiming for death to Ame…

> They will allow Racism, but actively moderate out Spam. Reddit used to be like that as far as I know, and though there's plenty to criticize I don't think Reddit was intentionally set up to become a breeding ground for violent racists. 8chan's policy about spam is very different from how a policy against racism would look. What it in practice means is that if someone posts the same suspicious link on a hundred boar…

> It would have more edge cases, and it would have to be enforced more consistently. It would be a lot more work

Obviously it would be more work than doing nothing. That's not an argument to do nothing though. There are plenty of topics moderated away (interpreting the age of teens/children in images for example) and yet those get handled with all of the subjectivity just fine. So that's also unrelated to why.

Noone said that 8chan was intentinoally created to be what it's become - what was said was that it has been allowed to become what it has become with no intervention.

And to your final point, even it's original creator says it should be shut down given what it's turned into. If the principled founder says "this has gone too far", maybe it's time to take it seriously.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#353

Post by candybar »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #346
iamnothere wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know why you lie, but you do. I hate to invoke HN guidelines, but this accusation violates "Assume good faith". Here's another source, this time from the National Review: Remarkably, pre-Hitler Germany had laws very much like the Canadian anti-hate law. Moreover, those laws were enforced with some vigour. During the 15 years before Hitler came to power, there were more than 200 prosecutions based on anti-Se…

Did the New Yorker plagiarize that last sentence from the Atlanitc? It's in both of your excerpts, almost identically.

I found this fascinating so did a bit of research:

Both the National Review article and this piece (https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2012/04/words-and-deeds/) by Flemming Rose credit Alan Borovoy for having been the original author of that passage (in his 1988 book When Freedoms Collide: The Case for Civil Liberties).

The New Yorker article is based on Bob Mankoff interviewing Flemming Rose and it looks like Flemming Rose may have been slightly misquoted in a way that made the attribution less clear: the bit where it says:

> In the words of a present-day civil-rights campaigner, pre-Hitler Germany had laws very much like the anti-hate laws of today, and they were enforced with some vigor. As history so painfully testifies, this type of legislation proved ineffectual on the one occasion when there was a real argument for it.

Flemming Rose is attributing both sentences - "pre-Hitler Germany had laws very much like the anti-hate laws of today, and they were enforced with some vigor" & "As history so painfully testifies, this type of legislation proved ineffectual on the one occasion when there was a real argument for it." to "a present-day civil-rights campaigner" or Alan Borovoy.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#354

Post by throwaway5d097 »

irvwash wrote: post #308
throwaway5d097 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A global ban for promoting genocide or murder doesn't seem too complicated

It's still more work, because some people will get upset that they're not allowed to promote genocide. It still has edge cases (I've seen some hairy examples from Facebook moderation guidelines). It's also still more of a free speech issue than deleting spam is. That doesn't mean such a ban would be bad, but it is complicated, and someone who doesn't like genocide might still not want it.

The closest such edge cases I found were mixups between enticement and reportage about Syrian war crimes and Rohingya genocide. What edge cases have you seen?

I don't mean banning racism, but enticement for violent action.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#356

Post by dang »

solipsism wrote: post #89
codingslave wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's more going on in our current society than is being discussed. What it is exactly, and why its happening, is really hard to tell. We cant see the forest from the trees. But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them. People are responding, and are increasingly responding with huge negativity. I think this has nothing to do with how they're raised, an…

But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them Don't go there. Don't say mass shooters aren't at fault. The thing is, you don't need to. Both things can be true -- life is hard and unfair for certain people in certain ways, and that in the aggregate is bound to lead to more mass killings and other negative effects like suicide.. and the ones who decide to kill inno…

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#357

Post by watwut »

belorn wrote: post #345
watwut wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Interesting that you changed violence to intimate violence. As if there were equal number of women killing people (it is not) or being gang members (nope violent gangs are not dome kind of equality panacea). As if women were equally likely to get into fight in bars, clubs, schools you name it. Whether biological or social, men are more likely to be violent. And they are more likely to cause higher damage due to b…

Substance disorder, as practically all studies show, has very little to do with the actually drug being misused. Causes for substance abuse is often cited in research as genetic markers, environmental factors like childhood trauma and a lack of peer and family support, mental health, and stress with low access to stress management. With crime it should be no surprise that public intoxication and violation of city ord…

> Substance disorder, as practically all studies show, has very little to do with the actually drug being misused.

1.) But like, when it comes to homelessness, you looking like junkie and acting like junkie is what gets you eventually kicked out. Illegal drugs is what matter. Not whether you fall under substance disorder due to smoking.

2.) Non-homeless males are more likely to get criminal record. It is exact reason that makes housing for males with criminal record harder to find.

3.) Third, no it is not just that males are more likely to be charged while kills being the same for both genders. Males kill more people. Males get into fights more often. It does not matter whether it is inherent or something that happens due to socialization.

It does not matter that majority of men are not violent at all and not aggressive. What does matter is that there is subset who are like that and those are more likely to end homeless.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#358

Post by skocznymroczny »

shubb wrote: post #283
stefco_ wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This applies to a very small minority of men. The confident, attractive types with great bodies. An average woman will still get lots of attention on dating website and have a lot of guys to pick from, an average guy won't really get any attention on such websites. I don't know where you live/what dating pool you have experience with, but here are some contrasting anecdotal observations from NYC: 1) Straight women…

I don't know how far it generalises, but a lot of my early 30s female friends complain about how hard it is to find a long term relationship. Dates are easy to get, but explicitly looking for a long term thing puts off a lot of guys because it's just not the expectation. There is pressure to hold off on deep conversations or say you're just looking for fun when that really isn't the case. 'sometimes I just tell the g…

Well yes. The best time for women to find a long term relationship is middle 20s. They're done with education and can look for a partner. Unfortunately many women spend these years on frivolous casual dating. They often wake up in their early 30s looking for someone to settle down with. But there's a problem - why would a man go for a 30s woman, if he can still date 25 year old women instead?

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#359

Post by Nursie »

dredmorbius wrote: post #295
_iyig wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By what measure has extremism failed to take root in Europe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Stockholm_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Strasbourg_attack If you meant nativist extre…

Also: The Utøya massacre / bombing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utøya Jo Cox UK MP assassination: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/europe/jo-cox-briti... UK right-wing riots: https://www.mediamatters.org/sean-hannity/right-wing-media-u... Attacks on immigrant vendors in Greece: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-greece-crisis-dawn/specia... Dresden anti-islamist marches: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2…

That's the first time I've ever seen the 2011 riots in London called "Right Wing".

I was in London at the time. They were sparked by the police killing of a drug dealer, rightly or wrongly, and were more chaotic and violent than any sort of political.

Whatever the reaction was in the US, that article just calls it wrong.

--edit-- I think it might be you that's read it wrong, the article is just about US right wing media interests using the London riots to further their political goals in the US.

You might want to take that link off your list, it doesn't support your argument.

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