We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage • Hacker News Board

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#351

Post by pleasecalllater » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #82

loteck wrote: post #40

As an employee, it is valuable to me that my company will not hire someone who doesn't think our business does something important ("get over yourselves, you're not curing cancer"), or who thinks the right way to ask business decision questions is to ask if "you're morons", or who has a problem with the company asking very basic probing questions, such as confirming you've thought through the challenge of changing fr…

I so dislike the ball-gargling exercise of "why do you want to work here?" It's often a "well, I need a job, you're hiring, and what you guys are doing looks at least marginally interesting to me" - I ought not need to find whatever product/service/market they're doing/in inspiring - I should just want to do it for the pay offered.

"Because I have a weird hobby: I like to live in a flat, I like eating food a couple of times a day, I like to give some food to my kids."

... so the reality is that I need to lie at the interview to get the job, this is so sad.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#352

Post by oblib » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #248

rubicon33 wrote: post #208

I feel like a broken record, but I'm going to say it anyways. There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. Big tech has always been 1 step ahead of the employee, just like coal, and metal working was. They saw the huge need for developers and realized their costs would increase unless…

Trying to teach “everyone” to code is like teaching everyone to draw in high school art classes. It gives a lot of people exposure to what it means to code/draw, the fundamental steps of coding/drawing but doesn’t increase the supply of coders/artists in the world to the point where the skilled artists/programmers become commonplace.

What you say is true, but it's also true that the bar is lower than it was 20 years ago and it continues to move that direction, at least when we talk about simple "apps" as opposed to bleeding edge technologies now.

For example, "Chart.js" makes it really easy to create beautiful charts in a web app. Because of tools like that it's much easier to learn how to build a feature rich app now than 20 years ago.

Still, the guy who can create "Chart.js" (an artist) should be getting paid a lot more than a guy who can only use it (a craftsmen).

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#353

Post by AareyBaba » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

riazrizvi wrote: post #231

rubicon33 wrote: post #208

I feel like a broken record, but I'm going to say it anyways. There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. Big tech has always been 1 step ahead of the employee, just like coal, and metal working was. They saw the huge need for developers and realized their costs would increase unless…

1000X yes. It’s the result of a PR campaign to increase the H1B Visa allotment. Love H1B employees, they are just delicious! Low wages and zero bargaining power otherwise it’s out of the country with you. It’s also funny because this creates a problem where wages have been driven down to a point where skilled workers can barely afford to support a family in tech zones. So because of these depressed wages in software…

I keep hearing this 'H1B low wages'. Here's my startup idea.

You create a website with a list of job skills that 'slave wage companies (SWC)' are claiming to need to fill.

You collect resumes from unemployed U.S.candidates with these skills and send them to the SWCs. If the candidate gets hired you keep a recruiters fee.

If the candidate is rejected your startup lawyers sue the pants of the SWC for violating U.S H1B law. You pass on the settlement money to the rejected U.S. candidate keeping a percentage for your lawyer and your retirement fund.

US H1B law is clearly explained online [0], there are searchable databases [1] and most recruiting/HR people will gladly spill the loophole secrets that they have (posting jobs in obscure local newspapers, tailoring job description to an existing known foreign candidate etc).

[0] https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker... [1] https://h1bdata.info/index.php

You will be protecting American jobs and making money in the process.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#354

Post by cosmodisk » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #317

rubicon33 wrote: post #208

I feel like a broken record, but I'm going to say it anyways. There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. Big tech has always been 1 step ahead of the employee, just like coal, and metal working was. They saw the huge need for developers and realized their costs would increase unless…

150% - devs are slowly waking up to this fact. Behind the efforts to teach everybody to code are more sinister motives: lowering the salaries for engineers.

However,the reality is that most people simply can't do it. Take an average office and try to teach everyone how to code. after a month, 99% will know how to output text to console, 10% would probably be able to write a loop or two and maybe 1 or 2 guys will realise that development is their real calling. Those 2 guys will spend the next 5-7 years just to get to the point where people would start taking them serious and some senior engineer may even listen to what they have to say about system design. Writing a simple web based calculator is easy, however doing a proper enterprise level solution isn't something any bootcamp student gets anywhere near without 10 years of experience..

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#355

Post by musicale » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

Companies are so desperate to find qualified employees that they will do anything short of raising wages.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#356

Post by antt » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #306

_57jb wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are making the mistake that enterprises who employ thousands of developers are looking for quality over butts in seats.

Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB. Or at least, JavaScript and similar languages make programming much, much easier (and hence the barrier to entry much easier). As coding difficulty drops, and supply increases, the net effect will be a much higher demand for jobs than supply. And that's exactly where big tech w…

>Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB.

Sorry is this a joke? Because I'm missing it.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#357

Post by ranci » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

badpun wrote: post #296

TheLuddite wrote: post #226

I never understood why the hiring process in IT is so tedious compared to let's say...construction work or driving? Can you imagine that if on hiring a new truck driver the company was passing him trough 50 different routes on snow, ice and wet road. Or forcing a construction worker to build a house or something. Yet if one of these two professions fucks it up - people might die, if a coder fucks up - he'll be fired…

It's incomparably harder to judge the output of a coder vs a truck driver (where you pretty much have 100% visibility into work performance). Hence, companies are wary of hiring slackers or people of low talent, because they know that if they hire one, his low performance may never be detected afterwards. This leads to interviews checking for raw ability (whiteboard tests) and "passion" (show me your github etc.), as…

how in the hell would you "never detect a poor performer"? It's one of the most obvious things about the workplace if it is going on.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#358

Post by arcticfox » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #306

_57jb wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are making the mistake that enterprises who employ thousands of developers are looking for quality over butts in seats.

Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB. Or at least, JavaScript and similar languages make programming much, much easier (and hence the barrier to entry much easier). As coding difficulty drops, and supply increases, the net effect will be a much higher demand for jobs than supply. And that's exactly where big tech w…

> A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB.

Yeah, that could definitely happen. /s

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#359

Post by antt » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:48 PM UTC

yzmtf2008 wrote: post #279

rubicon33 wrote: post #208

I feel like a broken record, but I'm going to say it anyways. There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. Big tech has always been 1 step ahead of the employee, just like coal, and metal working was. They saw the huge need for developers and realized their costs would increase unless…

You honestly sounds like a broken record, looking at the cynicism from your comment history. If someone coming from just trainings on "code.org" is threatening your job safety, or god forbid making you "blue collar" like "those people", perhaps you should rethink whether your skill sets are adequate. Stop blaming other people.

Remember that time that the FAANGs admitted they stole a few hundred billion dollars from employees by forming a cartel?

Start blaming other people, because they are out to get you.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#360

Post by blihp » Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #27

jobthrowaway420 wrote: post #9

Made my first ever HN throwaway account to respond to this. I have been running a successful business, but it's not "tech". I want to get back into the software industry. I didn't have a software business idea, so I explored some tech company jobs. I am well-qualified at the VP/Director level for startups and even larger companies. I did go so far as to do an on-site interview for one company. I have verifiable proof…

If no equity was available, but profit sharing was? i.e if you brought in X million you get a % of that. Would you have taken the position? I'm starting a company, but want to retain 100% ownership. I don't want to give equity as I don't want to lose control. Been there, done that. I'd much rather go down the road of profit sharing based on the results.

Profit sharing no, revenue sharing yes.