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Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

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Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#351

Post by Chris_Chambers »

fhfjgjfducucuf wrote: post #119
thereare5lights wrote: post #72

Nationalism. This has been rising up like a plague in recent years and it isn't going away any time soon. When ego and emotion come into play, the question of what is the point because a matter of pride and the point is just to win regardless of the costs.

I feel this is too reductive in some senses. WWI was a war directed by imperialists sacrificing other people's children to profitier and try to grab power and influence for the elites in each country. Yes some elites did demonstrate egoism and inflame predjudice but that's the show for the rubes to get them to sacrifice their children and labor for the imperial project. Egoist leaders can only get their way if theirp…

Nice post, but spare us the shilling for your cancerous ideology. Delete the link and the final sentence about WW2 being good.

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#352

Post by masonic »

swarnie_ wrote: post #347
ekianjo wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this is debatable. The USA has the first military power in the whole world and could go and invade a bunch of countries if they wanted to and nobody would oppose them. Since they are not doing so, its hard to call them belligerent. The British Empire was way worse than the USA all things considered.

> The USA has the first military power in the whole world and could go and invade a bunch of countries if they wanted to We'll ignore Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq (twice) for the sake of this comment? Also lets ignore all those south american Coup d'états because it helps the narrative.

  Coup d'états
... are not a thing.

Coups d'état, maybe.

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#353

Post by masonic »

factsaresacred wrote: post #286
dvtrn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since they are not doing so, its hard to call them belligerent I wonder what kinds of things history will be saying about the United States in 200 years, a nation who probably didn't take the brutish British approach to invasion, but has tripwire forces-I mean "installations" dotted all over everyone else's back yards instead.

Gratitude, I hope. Without the US, the world would be a sh*tshow. The tripwire bases prevent the likes of Russia putting its paws on Eastern Europe or China snatching more islands they claim as there own. Back when the Serbs were genociding their Muslim citizens, Europe was inept while the US saved the day, as usual. The US enjoys the status quo - most military interventions are to maintain it.

  US saved the day
I suspect that the Croats and Bosnians would consider that an exaggeration.

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#354

Post by gaius »

geggam wrote: post #109
hrktb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great war could mean at least one country preparing for it and building weapons in advance. As of now the US have the greatest army, but if let’s say China were to prepare for it for enough time in a somewhat stealthy way, couldn’t it bring the USA into a long and dirty foght ?

The US has with no doubt the best ground on the planet to defend themselves with. Isolated by two large oceans and bordered by "mostly" friendly nations Force extended requires significant amplification. So for China to impact us in a meaningful way they would have to somehow sneak a force large enough to damage across a pretty wide open space, then maintain that logistically. Ditto for the RU That said once in the U…

Ditto for the RU

Russia is only 55 miles from the US.

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#355

Post by senorjazz »

raprp wrote: post #196
tomohawk wrote: post #148

The thing about war is that at some point, the conditions line up where it becomes seen as a solution (if not the only solution), and its not easy to see the point at which that will occur ahead of time. Will China's big sea grab start a war? So far, they've been able to smother any of their neighbor's push back, and have just ignored any international rulings against them. What about when they invade Taiwan, which t…

USA's bombing list for the last 20 years alone speaks for itself: Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia 1999 Yemen 2002 Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis) Iraq 2003-2015 Afghanistan 2001-2015 Pakistan 2007-2015 Somalia 2007-8, 2011 Yemen 2009, 2011 Libya 2011, 2015 Syria 2014-2016

Panama 1989 - Operation Just Cause (gotta love the operational names)

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#356

Post by senorjazz »

senorjazz wrote: post #355
raprp wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA's bombing list for the last 20 years alone speaks for itself: Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia 1999 Yemen 2002 Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis) Iraq 2003-2015 Afghanistan 2001-2015 Pakistan 2007-2015 Somalia 2007-8, 2011 Yemen 2009, 2011 Libya 2011, 2015 Syria 2014-2016

Panama 1989 - Operation Just Cause (gotta love the operational names)

oops morning coffee fail, that is 30 not 20

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#357

Post by senorjazz »

raprp wrote: post #344
poof131 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A puppet government? Hardly. We simply replaced Sunni for Shiite and slightly shifted things in a millennial old civil war. It was naive optimism of the Potomac chess players that we could reshape a country by invading it.[1] Others have mentioned the US supporting heinous countries like Saudi Arabia. This is sadly true and should stop, despite what the referenced article says about “staying engaged”. Ceasing support…

> A puppet government? Hardly. We simply replaced Sunni for Shiite and slightly shifted things in a millennial old civil war. When I read these type of comments I get truly scared on how the lives of non-western people don't really mean anything to lots of people. There wasn't as slight shift in a conflict but an all out invasion causing hundreds of thousands of deaths in a few years. Millions if you consider the las…

> > But the US also acts through a democracy, while the countries mentioned above do not.

I guess the innocent men, women and children feel better having died at the hands of a democracy.

But, your comment did bring a smile to my face, especially as what is happening right now [0]

Democracy? Iraq War pt II. Led by Bush, declared illegal by many, unwanted by more. Led by Bush, democracy. How did he get installed again? Ahh yes, the Florida "recount". Where the governor was his brother and the partisan SCOTUS decided along partisan lines rather than recount.

------ [0] POTUS stating the current recount in Florida should be stopped, even though is mandated by state law. Democracy?

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#358

Post by senorjazz »

Latteland wrote: post #282
tomohawk wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Obama an authoritarian? What about Bush? What about Clinton (Bill)? The previous few presidents got the US involved in lots of stupid wars. This president has expressly said he doesn't want to do that and has avoided it.

Obama was not an authoritarian. Bush 2 was maybe a little bit (remember after 9/11 and the spokesman said don't question the president). But trump is far far past all recent presidents in being an authoritarian. He lives for that, and sucks up to leaders like that in other countries. He says he doesn't want to get us in a war, but he seems willing to do anything to divert public attention (like his recent completely…

> Bush 2 was maybe a little bit

"With us or with the terrorists" definitely had a authoritarian bent to it

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#359

Post by senorjazz »

tomohawk wrote: post #203
NotAmazin wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot to mention Israel's aggression on adjacent countries Lebanon and Palestine. Would Israel's constant belligerence start a war?

I'm not aware of Israel making it a matter of national policy to annihilate Iran or any other country. However, that is Iran's stated policy, and what they've said they'll do when they get nukes. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2018/04/21/Iranian-g... Iran is training proxies in Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine to attack Israel. And that's what they're doing. They just launched a missile barrage, the largest eve…

> [to annihilate Israel] However, that is Iran's stated policy

This is not strictly true. Words were twisted and misconstrued and reported falsely in western media of what was actually said (which I think was still reprehensible, but Iranian policy is not the annihilation of Israel)

> and what they've said they'll do when they get nukes.

Absolutely not true. For one, they would never state they are trying to build a nuclear weapon, two they know Iran would cease to exist on the map if they did.

Unless you are perhaps referring to just a random person stating as such, if so, you could can find many more examples of Israeli and US persons saying the same of Iran, but that does not make it policy of Israel and US

Re: Reasons to Fear Another ‘Great War’

#360

Post by e_proxus »

poof131 wrote: post #317
yongjik wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is not annexing Iraq because then US will have to grant US citizenship to Iraqis and they will be free to move to mainland US. Nobody wants that, so instead US bombs the shit out of Iraq, honors its "independence" by erecting a pro-American puppet government, and acts surprised when shit falls apart. So yeah, not all wars are the same, but people suffer all the same.

A puppet government? Hardly. We simply replaced Sunni for Shiite and slightly shifted things in a millennial old civil war. It was naive optimism of the Potomac chess players that we could reshape a country by invading it.[1] Others have mentioned the US supporting heinous countries like Saudi Arabia. This is sadly true and should stop, despite what the referenced article says about “staying engaged”. Ceasing support…

That the US is a proper democracy can be discussed: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
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