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Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#351

Post by Chris2048 »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #226
madengr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$100k - $200k long term (ages 30 - 67). STEM has initial high pay, but tops out by middle age. Late middle age, or 55+, and you are a target for elimination. My coworkers daughter and her husband are both accountants. In their mid 30's they are doing much better than any STEM majors. They will both be firm partners by 40. +200k salaries for two people over 27 years (not that they'd work to 67 anyway). I know of a mec…

I don't mean to be rude when I say this but you are very out of touch with reality and what's a good income. $100k - $200k a year puts you, individually , over, at the very minimum , the 75th percentile income for American household. Also, your friends aren't even close to typical accountant salary, median pay $68,150 per year - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/accountants-a... Compare that to the typic…

> for American household

I think OP is talking relative to other skilled vocations, i.e what a potential STEM student might do instead.

If you have the opportunity to choose STEM, you are already at a certain level of opportunity.

> median pay $68,150 per year

How do you compare medians? What if there are more young software developers than young accountants?

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#352

Post by bluehat »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #72
macspoofing wrote: post #4

I've seen it argued that, paradoxically, the richer and more egalitarian a society is, the more the differences are magnified in the kinds choices individuals of both genders make. So Russia being a poorer nation with less paths to success would lead more women to make career choices based around economics, while in Sweden, a richer welfare state, economic factors may be a lower driver.

Well, the argument comes from the fact that the most gender equal countries still have very high level of men and women assuming traditional gender roles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask And we are not sure what that is.

Can't we use peer-reviewed studies instead of entertainment? I really feel like you're not doing your position justice...

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#353

Post by adrienne »

paganel wrote: post #276
macspoofing wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know this point-view might be seen as judgemental, It is judgmental. >it's just that I see people not contributing back to society with their work-time as not giving it all Child-rearing has societal benefits. It's one of the key reasons why children from two parent-households do significantly better on average than children from one. Either they get the benefit of dual income or a full-time parent. >I've heard my…

> Child-rearing has societal benefits. It's one of the key reasons why children from two parent-households do significantly better on average than children from one. Either they get the benefit of dual income or a full-time parent. Link to studies on that? And I mean comprehensive studies, not the ones limited to the US.

They won't be able to provide, because it turns out the differences basically evaporate when you control for the financial stability of the households. It's just that one-parent households (especially in the US) tend to be a hell of a lot less financially stable than two-parent households.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#354

Post by adrienne »

antisthenes wrote: post #308
macspoofing wrote: post #4

I've seen it argued that, paradoxically, the richer and more egalitarian a society is, the more the differences are magnified in the kinds choices individuals of both genders make. So Russia being a poorer nation with less paths to success would lead more women to make career choices based around economics, while in Sweden, a richer welfare state, economic factors may be a lower driver.

> I've seen it argued that, paradoxically, the richer and more egalitarian a society is, the more the differences are magnified in the kinds choices individuals of both genders make. There's absolutely nothing paradoxical about this. The more wealthy a society is, the less incentive there is for women to work instead of being the primary full-time caretaker. Women are happier in single-earner households where they do…

This is incredibly misogynist and unfortunately par for the course around here.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#355

Post by laughingman2 »

raducu wrote: post #93
laughingman2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah right, and how did you arrive at your reasoning, any list of scientific studies? This is good old sexist/racist talk "X is inferior in math because genes"

That is not what I was saying, far from it. My evidence is anecdotal, but think about it -- Russia recently decriminalized domestic violence, not exactly the hallmark of gender equality, that's surely not the reason why more females are interested in IT in Russia. I was not suggesting that females are inferior to men, just that males and females will make vastly different life choices because of psycho-evolution. It'…

Anecdotal evidence means shit, of course there is biological difference between men and women. The point is you making arbitrary claims using it without evidence is stupid.

Centuries ago there were no women scientists, now there are, so does that mean the people like you in the transitory period claiming "Women can never be scientists due to psycho-evolution (whatever bullshit that is)" are right.

Without scientific evidence, your psycho-evolutionary boundary on what is achievable by men or women is just convenient excuse for sexism because it changes and is arbitary.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#356

Post by jeena »

paganel wrote: post #230
camelNotation wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>to this day I still think that a stay-at-home parent is a lazy human being I'm not sure why it's lazy to avoid work if it doesn't negatively affect your health or well-being. I can't say what the objective meaning of life is (or if one even exists for certain) but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it isn't to "grow up, work for decades, and die." Nothing gold can stay.

> but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it isn't to "grow up, work for decades, and die." I've also said it in a previous comment, but my ~84-or-so peasant grandma' did just that, i.e. she worked all of her life ever since she got married at 17, never took a "vacation" day off. I've heard her saying that she was really upset that her legs were hurting her, because she really wanted to continue working as…

For some, sure, but there is a argument to be made that it's really about time that we decouple work and income. If I didn't have to work to get an income I sure would work with something quite different, more artistic, instead of reinventing the wheel for the fourth time even though I know this code will not be used for anything usefull anyway.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#357

Post by raducu »

laughingman2 wrote: post #355
raducu wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what I was saying, far from it. My evidence is anecdotal, but think about it -- Russia recently decriminalized domestic violence, not exactly the hallmark of gender equality, that's surely not the reason why more females are interested in IT in Russia. I was not suggesting that females are inferior to men, just that males and females will make vastly different life choices because of psycho-evolution. It'…

Anecdotal evidence means shit, of course there is biological difference between men and women. The point is you making arbitrary claims using it without evidence is stupid. Centuries ago there were no women scientists, now there are, so does that mean the people like you in the transitory period claiming "Women can never be scientists due to psycho-evolution (whatever bullshit that is)" are right. Without scientific…

That's a straw man, I never said either sex should or shouldn't be a scientist or whatever they choose to be.

What I AM saying is maybe, just maybe there's no conspiracy against women and that women and men make different life an career choices which can simply be explained by bullshit psycho-evolution.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#358

Post by cabalamat »

tptacek wrote: post #32
cabalamat wrote: post #13

It's because Russia isn't a particularly nice place to live. From the article: > Most of the girls we talked to from other countries had a slightly playful approach to Stem, whereas in Russia, even the very youngest were extremely focused on the fact that their future employment opportunities were more likely to be rooted in Stem subjects. They do tech because it provides a way of getting a good life. In the West, wh…

Without engaging in any of the rest of your comment, I'm going to call out again the attempt to shift goalposts from tech to STEM in general. Tech people want to believe that the gender disparity in their field is shared among all the STEM fields, but, of course, it is not: women are far better represented in other STEM fields. Computer science, physics, and engineering have similarly acute gender disparity. The rest…

That's a valid criticism. As you say I was conflating one thing with another (wider) thing that it's part of.

Re: Why is Russia so good at encouraging women into tech?

#359

Post by camelNotation »

paganel wrote: post #230
camelNotation wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>to this day I still think that a stay-at-home parent is a lazy human being I'm not sure why it's lazy to avoid work if it doesn't negatively affect your health or well-being. I can't say what the objective meaning of life is (or if one even exists for certain) but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it isn't to "grow up, work for decades, and die." Nothing gold can stay.

> but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that it isn't to "grow up, work for decades, and die." I've also said it in a previous comment, but my ~84-or-so peasant grandma' did just that, i.e. she worked all of her life ever since she got married at 17, never took a "vacation" day off. I've heard her saying that she was really upset that her legs were hurting her, because she really wanted to continue working as…

Have you considered the possibility that she kept herself occupied as a way to avoid uncomfortable dilemmas like the one I posed above? As virtuous as hard work may be, vain work is not. Dealing with difficult questions is the only way to know whether or not the life we lead is as full as it can be. We can certainly close ourselves off to difficult questions and enjoy what we have, but why would we intentionally waste the opportunity to rise above that if we can?
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