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A new approach to China

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Re: A new approach to China

#351

Post by codexon »

dutchflyboy wrote: post #224
codexon wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just insane... do you really think the two are comprable? 1. Google is not withdrawing from China. They are merely deciding not to implement additional censoring measures to curry additional favor with the government. 2. They have been losing market share to an inferior but government approved search engine Baidu. Why do you think Google China's Kai-fu Lee left after a few years in his highest position to make…

Please read the article to the end: "We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.". So no, they ar…

I did read the article to the end, and I find no fault with what I said.

They haven't decided to pull out completely from China yet. They simply said they might, and their main focus was to stop censoring as much as they can "within the law".

I am really surprised that you have been voted so highly as though you and many other readers here mistakenly interpreted this as an absolute sign that Google is going to withdraw from China.

Re: A new approach to China

#352

Post by lhuang »

omouse wrote: post #3
enomar wrote: post #2

We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China. Wow.

They shouldn't have even opened an office in China. What the heck did they expect to happen?

By this logic, why do business in a plethora of other questionable countries?

Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Re: A new approach to China

#353

Post by rms »

est wrote: post #270
rms wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is anything I could do to make a difference. I guess I can give a few people a free US VPN. Email me if you want access. Google could bring down the GFW by massively disseminating free VPN access to Chinese people. However, doing so could get Larry and/or Sergey assassinated.

VPN is just temporary solution, I suspect there will soon be a whitelist crack down. I hope there's some sort of darknet that actively inject data into China's Internet using source address rewrite. However most of ISP in US or Europe ban srcaddr rewrite which makes this difficult.

I think if China actually goes for a whitelist crackdown, it is going to set off an unprecedented international effort to crack the Great Firewall. It would be an enormous mistake for the CCP; it cannot possibly end well.

To those that emailed me about the VPN, I should have it up within 24 hours.

Re: A new approach to China

#354

Post by codexon »

ximeng wrote: post #316
desperado123 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

为什么美国不来个反GFW项目 你禁止国内访问外网的某些网站， 那我也以其人之道还治其人之身 把关键网站也对中国封掉，比如科技IEEE，教育，医疗等著名网站，把中国真正变成一个局域网。那时候详细国内的网民该疯了

Translation: "Why doesn't America create an anti-GFW project. You block people in China accessing websites outside of China, so I give you your own medicine, block China from accessing some key websites, such as technology IEEE, education, medicine, and other famous websites, then China would genuinely become a local area network. Then webizens within China would genuinely go mad"

Because that would be stooping to China's level.

Re: A new approach to China

#355

Post by kirse »

bemmu wrote: post #202

Baidu stock +7% after hours.

If people had any idea this was coming down the Google PR pipeline this would have been a huge money-making play... BIDU is up 13% today and BIDU options are set to expire 3 days later... JAN420 calls are up 7000%... Game over, time to retire.

And don't even mention "insider trading" because we all know the SEC has its head up its rear when it comes to knowing when it's happening.

Re: A new approach to China

#356

Post by Prolorn »

lhuang wrote: post #342
Retric wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of China magnifies the significance of their changes, but there has been little real change over the last 10 years. Their economic growth pails in comparison to what South Korea or Japan went though over a similar time period. The government actively limits economic growth and has been using the limited economic growth to help quell political unease. China is a highly corrupt and protectionist society and th…

huh? No real change over the last 10 years? As a rule I try to shy away inflammatory criticism, but this was a very poorly researched post. There has been TREMENDOUS change over the past 10 years! You have to remember that until Deng's reforms in the late 80s, China was a completely closed society that was just beginning to heal from decades of strife and instability (almost 100 years!), including the cultural revolu…

Not to quibble too much, since this is a complex issue, but as it is 2010, "last 10 years" would mean since 2000, so stuff from the 80s and 90s isn't precisely on target.

Re: A new approach to China

#357

Post by Retric »

lhuang wrote: post #342
Retric wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of China magnifies the significance of their changes, but there has been little real change over the last 10 years. Their economic growth pails in comparison to what South Korea or Japan went though over a similar time period. The government actively limits economic growth and has been using the limited economic growth to help quell political unease. China is a highly corrupt and protectionist society and th…

huh? No real change over the last 10 years? As a rule I try to shy away inflammatory criticism, but this was a very poorly researched post. There has been TREMENDOUS change over the past 10 years! You have to remember that until Deng's reforms in the late 80s, China was a completely closed society that was just beginning to heal from decades of strife and instability (almost 100 years!), including the cultural revolu…

Comparing the rate of political change in China from 1988 - 1998 to the rate of change in 2000 - 2010 it's clearly slowed down. As to corruption I can only suggest you research the topic both from a historical perspective and a modern business one. Read up on how Google local competitor has benefited from close government ties and multiply that by every significant business in China. Look at the percentage of multi millionaires with close family connections to government and suggest corruption is not a major issue.

China has had just as long to grow economically as Japan and South Korea. Yet, only by ignoring the vast difference in population sizes are they in any way comparable from an economic standpoint. Suggesting that a non "free-market" system is a better approach when it's provided such poor returns is ignoring history.

Re: A new approach to China

#358

Post by [deleted] »

miked wrote: post #309
jordyhoyt wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My high school US history teacher said this (during the ramp-up to the Iraq war): "Posturing for war can be very good, actually going to war is NEVER good." The parallel here, in my mind, is that Google has an opportunity for accomplishing several things while "posturing" for war with the Chinese government: * Put pressure on the Chinese government to change. This is the public-facing goal of the campaign. The cause.…

...actually going to war is NEVER good." I wonder if African-American slaves would agree. Or West Europeans, especially those in concentration camps. Or South Koreans.

[deleted]

Re: A new approach to China

#359

Post by Retric »

ytinas wrote: post #303
omouse wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's an attack done by the Chinese government, then Google's withdrawal from the country would be welcome by them. It would increase the market share of Baidu, the local Chinese-based earch engine. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to generate profits can eschew it and take a moral high ground why can't the government do it? Are the cheap goods from china so necessary tha…

I agree, but are you ready to pay what it really costs to make things?

Yes, but I buy few physical goods relative to my income.

Re: A new approach to China

#360

Post by SapphireSun »

est wrote: post #268
JCThoughtscream wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They expected to do business, of course. It is, after all, a 1.32bn audience base. Quite glad they're opting to take the ethical route this time, though.

> a 1.32bn audience base With 0.4bn actual base (total amount of Chinese Internet users), others were 'represented' by the Party.

0.4 bn = Population of the united states
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