it's not at all anything moral.
it's business.
the french and german banks lent to Greece not out of charity, but of profit, a profit earn at the risk of insolvency.
Now the Greeks can pay back, that is, the french and german banks failed their business.
if the EU is to bail out, it's bailing out the BIG BANKS, not the Greek People.
Clear ?
Business is business. why the banks would do this risky business, because their principle amount and the interest earned are guaranteed by EU. the situation now is that if the banks win, they have it all; if the banks lose, the eu people pay for them.
if you cant help blaming someone, blame the BANKS and their ruthless risk taking.
Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
341–350 of 350 posts
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#342it's not at all anything moral.
it's business.
the french and german banks lent to Greece not out of charity, but of profit, a profit earned at the risk of insolvency.
Now the Greeks can pay back, that is, the french and german banks failed their business.
if the EU is to bail out, it's bailing out the BIG BANKS, not the Greek People.
Clear ?
Business is business. why the banks would do this risky business, because their principle amount and the interest earned are guaranteed by EU. the situation now is that if the banks win, they have it all; if the banks lose, the eu people pay for them.
if you cant help blaming someone, blame the BANKS and their ruthless risk taking.
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wasn't trying to be polemic, it's just easier to understand "Germany" than "Troika", since there's an obvious public purse and a visible public figurehead to attach to in your mind's eye. Also, there is more to it than polemics. I think Germany's political traditions and biases largely driving these policies and also their interests (as direct lenders and as the country housing the interested banks). Angela Merkel…
It is simply not true, that this whole debate is about Germany vs. Greece. Greek media and Greek demonstrators created it and the German yellow press and right-wing parties gladly answered. If you have the same narrative than these guys, you are by definition being polemic. In reality though there are Eastern European with lower standards of living than Greece that had a hard time getting these measures through parli…
Of course it is. Where did they get the money for the loans? Who loses if they don't get paid?
We don't have a European taxation system, an empowered European parliament, figurehead or any such thing.
The way things work in this case is that "The Troika" is a mechanism. As I said it's all foggy. But insisting that this Troika is ultimately the decision make, is independent and so forth is disingenuous, I think. Behind this troika is EU member state government that funded the laons, decided on the rules and will be on the hook if loans are defaulted on. Chief among them is Germany. It is their public interest at stake (sharing with other members, etc.). Also it is their banks (not only their) that these loans will go to repay, so it is also their economic interest. It is also their political traditions, biases and ideologies that are being largely represented by the "Troika"
The media depiction of Germans and Greeks is not just a made up populist Greek media invention. It's in the German media as well. Angela Merkel herself (with finance ministers of other member states taking a sort of deputy role) is speaking and acting a way that assumes this role.
To me, saying "germany" in this case is no different tan saying "The US" in the Afganistan War. You could be legalistic and say "International Security Assistance Force" or "Coalition." You could say NATO, of which the US are the biggest member. You might even say the "Afghan Transitional Administration and their allies" if you are willing to push it. But, we say the "US invasion/mission/force" as shorthand and that is more honest than all the rest. All those terms are mechanisms or sometimes euphemisms given form.
In any case, in my original comment it was a shorthand given that I don't know the ins and outs of this (purposely?) obtuse collection of acronyms and it wasn't particularly important to the comment.
I said "it was the troika (Germany, mostly) put the fallout on the German (and EU) public's tab."
What exactly are you claiming anyway? That germany isn't the key decision maker? They aren't they key lender in these troika bailout loans? That it isn't mostly the German public that will be liable for these loans when they are defaulted on?
I agree that this "Germany vs Greece" media dynamic is unhelpful. The media has been playing to nationalism in both countries. That stil doesn't mean pretending that these acronyms are real independent bodies is more honest.
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#344i'm sure that if the Greeks have the potential of killing as many people and as cruelly as the German do, they would be tolerated and excused, whatever they have done.
It just happens that Greece is a small and weak nation that everybody can safely point a finger at and accuse them of every problem there is.
it does not just happens to the Greek, but to all the disadvantaged.whenever there's a crisis, some group would be targeted. they caused it because they are lazy, they're indulgent, they're irresponsible, they are weak, they're immoral,etc.be it women, colored, the poor,the illiterate, Jews, you name it.
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it is a proof the Greeks are lazy, tax-avoiding thieves. They don't care about Cadastre. They're on the streets for their comfy government jobs and social benefits. Please don't sell me that socialist BS. I live in ex-socialist country and there is always trash talk about elites, aristocrats and capitalism on our long coffee breaks but guess what? You know what those people cry for? Socialist dictators and…
You can be socialist and selfish and still be in favour of a Cadastre, since you personally are unlikely to own the land. Lazy, selfish people should support knowing who owns all the land, because that tells you who to tax efficiently via a Land Value Tax. Unless they are lazy, selfish people who already know who own the land, because it's them that owns it. Which brings us back to powerful elites, which you think do…
I'm not saying that Greeks are not in favour of a Cadastre. They probably think it is a great idea. Only problem is they are too lazy to implement it and too selfish to give power to non-lazy people who might then make them work.
Elites exist, it is not a mystery cloaked in enigma. Most of people on Earth could say I'm part of elite just for being European. But you are talking about powerful elites who work in mysterious ways to control all Greek people votes.
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unless by law? Well, at least that one isn't a problem for a government.
Yes it is. Laws require debate and public voting in Parliament which exposes many/all members of the governing coalition to lots of bad press, which is /so/ unfair since all they really wanted was to get reelected and, honest, they didn't want to be a bother to anyone.
You can make it a general law with a different focus and then you alter it with a court. This is a non issue in contemporary democratic procedures.
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#347The medium page is not viewable for me apparently due to a copyright issue. Here is an alternative site for the full transcript:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-06/piketty-germany-has...
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#348Everyone always seems to forget in these discussions how fantastic for German exports having instability in the Eurozone is...
Exports have been an important part of the German economy for decades. People aren't buying German products because they happen to be cheaper now and the won't stop buying them should they get more expensive.
>>> People aren't buying German products because they happen to be cheaper now
Well, I suppose you can just make up statements like that if you want. I could say that basic economics disagrees with you, but what would be the point?
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exports have been an important part of the German economy for decades. People aren't buying German products because they happen to be cheaper now and the won't stop buying them should they get more expensive.
>>> People aren't buying German products because they happen to be cheaper now Well, I suppose you can just make up statements like that if you want. I could say that basic economics disagrees with you, but what would be the point?
Basic economics don't disagree with me at all. Production in Germany is expensive. If price were the deciding factor German industry would be irrelevant. The reason it isn't is because these products are specialized high quality products. You don't buy them because they are cheaper than some competitor, you buy them because there isn't an alternative product.
The current euro situation certainly helps keeps prices down and allows more people to buy German products and that's a big part of why the German economy is doing so much better than anyone else. It wouldn't be much worse with a German currency either though.
Re: Thomas Piketty: “Germany has never repaid.”
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>> People aren't buying German products because they happen to be cheaper now Well, I suppose you can just make up statements like that if you want. I could say that basic economics disagrees with you, but what would be the point?
Basic economics don't disagree with me at all. Production in Germany is expensive. If price were the deciding factor German industry would be irrelevant. The reason it isn't is because these products are specialized high quality products. You don't buy them because they are cheaper than some competitor, you buy them because there isn't an alternative product. The current euro situation certainly helps keeps prices do…
Yes, I get it, German exports are fantastic and they have been made even better by the Greeks devaluing your currency! It's great that you agree with me!