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Introducing Pebble Time

kickstarter.com

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Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#341

Post by pkulak »

logicallee wrote: post #235
jkestner wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's from 2012, and as someone mentioned, was in response to a lot of risky hardware projects. More recently, Kickstarter changed their rules to be a lot simpler. https://www.kickstarter.com/rules Perhaps this campaign violates what you perceive as the spirit of Kickstarter, but Kickstarter itself has never had a problem with established companies/entertainers using the platform.

yeah, who would want to use kickstarter for a risky hardware project! When you can use it as a store by a company that raised more than $10 million, and this time sell a fully completed product with no special rewards or community input. They didn't even try to come up with any rewards this time - at any price, or show any part of how it was designed. it blatantly has nothing to do with the kickstarter spirit whatsoe…

This spirit is better for me. I'll never back another Kickstarter project in the old "spirit". One project failing and taking all my money with it is enough for me. I'm nearly certain that I'll get my watch, so I backed this one.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#342

Post by DenisM »

bboreham wrote: post #323
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

> bankers got completely cut out of the "deal" Seems to me that Kickstarter are the banker, taking 5% of the funds. And their payment processors are taking another 3%.

There are two important differences:

1. There is no discretion involved. When you're trying to finance a new development you have to convince bankers/VCs to give you money. Payment processors don't exactly need to be convinced, and Kickstarter is open to anyone.

2. The size of the cut taken by the middlemen is in direct proportion to the sales volume. With a bank you would normally take out a fixed-sized loan, then spend all the money on manufacturing, then pray that you can sell enough of your gizmos and pay back the loan. With buyer-financed manufacturing there is no guesswork involved.

Less discretion and less guesswork => less overhead.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#343

Post by DenisM »

jusben1369 wrote: post #302
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

To play devil's advocate let's do this from the perspective of the VC/Banker guys: 1) "Can we have $10 million to build the next wave of our watch?" 2) "Woah. There's a good chance AppleWatch will crush you. It's all anyone talks about. We'll lose our money and you'll waste 2 - 3 years of your life. Not sure it's a good idea" In the old days 3) was i) nothing happened as the VC guys feared risk or ii) They did lend/i…

How exactly do VCs win when the company crowd-raises $6m? Seems to me they make exactly $0 and receive 0% of equity, because they are not involved at all.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#344

Post by cthulha »

fragmede wrote: post #304
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

That's a cute viewpoint, but the mere mortals get screwed, same as always. Let's say a VC invests $2.4 million dollars in a company. Let's assume the company does well and sells out to Facebook for $2.3 billion. The VC, being wise in the ways of finance, profits handsomely from that $2.3 billion. What if, instead of a VC investing $2.4 million dollars, it was a large collection of mortals each investing a small sum,…

You forget the 'mere mortals' working at the company. They keep their equity rather than the VC.

On the Oculus example: I got what I paid for. Did they ever say equity? Did they ever say that backers got decision making rights for a company on the financial high-wire (both IP and hardware capital expenses).

Really, I thought the outcry against Oculus just exposed how little people think through the hard choices of running a business and how entitled they feel for so little expenditure.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#345

Post by mahyarm »

riyadparvez wrote: post #211
mahyarm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it is too bad. I know many people who will not wear a smart watch if it doesn't look good. And these are people who have / wear many fashion watches of various sizes. The apple watch is the first watch that they actually like appearance wise. At least come out with a shiny gold, brass and rose gold colored versions. Not actual gold mind you, just gold colored. There are certain market segments that love those co…

I don't need fashionable watch. But this thing looks so childish.

You don't, but many other segments do.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#346

Post by mahyarm »

0xCMP wrote: post #216
mahyarm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it is too bad. I know many people who will not wear a smart watch if it doesn't look good. And these are people who have / wear many fashion watches of various sizes. The apple watch is the first watch that they actually like appearance wise. At least come out with a shiny gold, brass and rose gold colored versions. Not actual gold mind you, just gold colored. There are certain market segments that love those co…

They announced it would be actual gold. Just like for luxury gold watches.

I know, but for example, the 'champagne' (gold) color iPhone 6 is a very popular color in China. That's why I said it doesn't have to be actual gold.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#347

Post by nl »

fragmede wrote: post #304
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

That's a cute viewpoint, but the mere mortals get screwed, same as always. Let's say a VC invests $2.4 million dollars in a company. Let's assume the company does well and sells out to Facebook for $2.3 billion. The VC, being wise in the ways of finance, profits handsomely from that $2.3 billion. What if, instead of a VC investing $2.4 million dollars, it was a large collection of mortals each investing a small sum,…

The sense of entitlement in this is difficult for me to understand.

Kickstarter works by a person paying for something in advance. Often backers get discounted prices, in return for taking on this risk of backing. Obviously your example diminishes that value of the "shiny Oculus Rift", but it isn't at all clear why.

Your post seems to indicate that you think the backer should get both the product, and a piece of the company for the same price.

How's the economics of that supposed to work?

Specific to the Oculus Rift example, I understand that people resent the company being bought out by a company (Facebook) whose philosophy differs to what they thought Oculus's should be. I can see why people resent that, but I don't think it counts at "getting screwed" in any economic sense at all. I think it is more a moral violation of values they though were shared with a company. I'm not sure how this problem can be solved in any easy way.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#348

Post by djloche »

DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

So far Pebble has raised $375k from angels, plus a $15M Series A (per Crunchbase). If they hadn't had any outside investors, I would definitely agree with you, but the VCs/Angels that invested in Pebble have to be loving the funding results of this Kickstarter. Tens of thousands of new and return customers pre-launch is always a good thing when launching a new product.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#349

Post by delecti »

lt wrote: post #181
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm are there even enough levels for them to reach that goal?

Nope.. Adding up all the tiers up totals a maximum of $9,550,000, for a total of 56k watches. Interesting that they didn't design this to break their 10.2M record of the first campaign. I'd bet they are going to increase the slots or or announce addons for the pledges to go for it. At this rate they are going to be sold out in a couple hours, if that.

They posted an update saying they're bumping the 2nd single-watch tier by 10k, and will add a new single-watch tier with a later ship date when that sells out.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#350

Post by aeiro »

msrini wrote: post #290

We are developing a smart sensor strap for Pebble time: check it out: http://www.gethbeats.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWqbaX94_lA

Do you have a rough idea about the price? Am I expecting 2 figures? 3?
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