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Introducing Pebble Time

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Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#301

Post by ansible »

joosters wrote: post #163

What happened to 'Kickstarter is not a store' - https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store ? Offering multiple quantities of a reward is prohibited. Hardware and Product Design projects can only offer rewards in single quantities or a sensible set (some items only make sense as a pair or as a kit of several items, for instance). The development of new products can be especially complex for creators a…

I really don't see the point of ordering a Pebble from Kickstarter myself, even if I had a desire for such a watch.

The nominal amount I might save by doing the pre-order is more than offset by the risk I'm assuming. I'd much rather wait until the product is released, and then read some independent reviews... especially ones where the reviewer has been wearing it for a month or so.

I've only funded two crowd-sourced projects. One was for a buddy of mine, the other was for Sandstorm.io, where they were already basically done, and just wanted some more funds for enhancements. And it was open-source, so its just the same in my mind as when I send money to Debian or OpenBSD (which is not often enough, but that's another discussion). And even with Sandstorm, one of the principals is also a friend of a friend, so I had confidence the money was going towards a good purpose.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#302

Post by jusben1369 »

DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

To play devil's advocate let's do this from the perspective of the VC/Banker guys: 1) "Can we have $10 million to build the next wave of our watch?" 2) "Woah. There's a good chance AppleWatch will crush you. It's all anyone talks about. We'll lose our money and you'll waste 2 - 3 years of your life. Not sure it's a good idea"

In the old days 3) was i) nothing happened as the VC guys feared risk or ii) They did lend/invest but with a lot of risk built in to the terms to reflect the uncertainty.

Now 3) = "Let's put it on Kickstarter. That way both of us don't need to guess - we'll just know. If you get $x million of pledges we're happy to give you $y cash at $z valuation"

Seems like everyone can win?

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#303

Post by pfooti »

FWIW, I have a regular pebble, and was a KS backer from the first campaign. I'm considering a second backing, mainly because the delivery date is may 2015, which is probably late enough that I'd be in the market for a new one anyway, and the promise to have a special something for double backers is a nice touch.

Personally, I use my pebble for just about whatever you'd think. It's nice to control my music (don't laugh- the nexus 6 is a pain to take out of my pocket just to change tracks), to have a quiet and personal alert of important emails, (the notification is a lot less noticeable by other people than the buzz of a vibrating phone) and to have ridiculous watchfaces.

QR code of the current time in a watchface. My favorite! https://github.com/TrueJournals/pebble-qrwatch

Finally, Android L has this nice new trusted-bluetooth-device notion, so when I'm wearing the pebble, I don't have to unlock the phone. I know it's a bit of a security risk, but it is one I'm willing to take.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#304

Post by fragmede »

DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

That's a cute viewpoint, but the mere mortals get screwed, same as always.

Let's say a VC invests $2.4 million dollars in a company. Let's assume the company does well and sells out to Facebook for $2.3 billion. The VC, being wise in the ways of finance, profits handsomely from that $2.3 billion.

What if, instead of a VC investing $2.4 million dollars, it was a large collection of mortals each investing a small sum, say $300.

The collection of mortals would simply give the company $2.4 million, and after selling out to Facebook, the company... screws over the puny mortals and simply pockets it all.

Sure, the company gets to keep out the eeeeevil VC and bankers, but the little guy sees no return on their $300.

Yay?

Wait, no, we all got a shiny Oculus Rift out of the deal to play with.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#306

Post by sliverstorm »

jusben1369 wrote: post #302
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

To play devil's advocate let's do this from the perspective of the VC/Banker guys: 1) "Can we have $10 million to build the next wave of our watch?" 2) "Woah. There's a good chance AppleWatch will crush you. It's all anyone talks about. We'll lose our money and you'll waste 2 - 3 years of your life. Not sure it's a good idea" In the old days 3) was i) nothing happened as the VC guys feared risk or ii) They did lend/i…

I wonder if it isn't more like, now 3) = "Let's put it on Kickstarter and let ordinary blokes who don't know any better fund us instead".

It's just all-around suspicious when a product you'd expect to be able to get traditional funding, is listed on Kickstarter instead.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#307

Post by fragmede »

simonswords82 wrote: post #292
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

I totally agree, and here int he UK I've encountered crowd funding for businesses selling to businesses. I run a software company and one of my clients raised nearly £500k in 2 weeks by crowdfunding via an intermediary. There's also organisations such as https://www.fundingcircle.com/ that provide crowdfunding on a scale...

There are many crowdfunding platforms but at least here in the US they all need to follow the same SEC regulations which require investors to be accredited which essentially means you have to be a millionaire to play.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#308

Post by TeMPOraL »

sliverstorm wrote: post #306
jusben1369 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate let's do this from the perspective of the VC/Banker guys: 1) "Can we have $10 million to build the next wave of our watch?" 2) "Woah. There's a good chance AppleWatch will crush you. It's all anyone talks about. We'll lose our money and you'll waste 2 - 3 years of your life. Not sure it's a good idea" In the old days 3) was i) nothing happened as the VC guys feared risk or ii) They did lend/i…

I wonder if it isn't more like, now 3) = "Let's put it on Kickstarter and let ordinary blokes who don't know any better fund us instead". It's just all-around suspicious when a product you'd expect to be able to get traditional funding, is listed on Kickstarter instead.

From seeing attitudes of friends doing hardware startups, no, the GP's 3) was accurate. Kickstarter is now a marketing and product/market fit evaluation tool.

A friend of mine is halfway through his Kickstarter now and he directly told me that he doesn't expect much more than breaking even on it - the whole point is a) marketing and b) greater chance to get new investors on board, because that's where the real money is.

And, while I'm not sure of that, I suspect it's their current investor who suggested that Kickstarter campaign.

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#309

Post by sliverstorm »

eitally wrote: post #151
mikestew wrote: post #130

I was waiting to see what Apple had in store but...oh, what the hell, I'll pull the trigger. Fact is, I'm pretty satisfied with my original KS-backer edition Pebble. Apple is going to have to have a pretty convincing story for me to charge a watch every single day. I spend enough time away from 5VDC power sources that such short battery life could become occasionally annoying. The original Pebble does what I want it…

I really just want a "normal" watch that has some "smart" features. I already have a sports tracker (Garmin Forerunner), and I have given up wearing my Moto360 because it's almost never useful in compelling enough ways that I don't just pull my phone out after seeing a notification ... and I have to charge it nightly.

What sort of features?

Re: Introducing Pebble Time

#310

Post by dandelany »

fragmede wrote: post #304
DenisM wrote: post #287

As I look at the total pledge amount climbing higher and higher, at $5.5m presently, I can't help but think that VCs and bankers got completely cut out of the "deal". It used to be that you had to please a whole bunch of finance guys to get anything done, but this time they weren't even invited to the table. It's a big change. I also keep thinking about other ways in which the financial sector can get disintermediate…

That's a cute viewpoint, but the mere mortals get screwed, same as always. Let's say a VC invests $2.4 million dollars in a company. Let's assume the company does well and sells out to Facebook for $2.3 billion. The VC, being wise in the ways of finance, profits handsomely from that $2.3 billion. What if, instead of a VC investing $2.4 million dollars, it was a large collection of mortals each investing a small sum,…

This is why I'm excited about the possibility of the crowdfunding provisions in the recently passed JOBS Act. In theory, this should allow companies to sell small pieces of equity (up to Math.max($2000, 5% of investor's yearly earnings) per investor and up to $1 million total) without having to go through the headache involved with an SEC Public Offering registration. While the potential for fraud needs to be dealt with, this opens the doors to something like "Kickstarter with Equity".
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