Earlier quoted context omitted.
Down to 5.5k two hours after your comment. At this rate, we should be done pretty darn soon.
Only 2.7K needed now.
Done now :).
U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
341–350 of 363 posts
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
The federal government pursued the death penalty against Brian Patrick Regan in 2003. The jury decided against the punishment, however, and is now serving a life sentence without parole.
He had also made an offer to foreign governments to sell the information, and judging by the fact that he was carrying classified documents with him when he was arrested, I'd say that he planned on acting on those offers. By contrast, AFAIK Snowden has made no such offer and has not talked with the Chinese government.
I agree that what Regan attempted to do was far worse than what Snowden did. It's not even in the same category. I was just pointing out that the feds did pursue the death penalty in this case despite not pursuing it in the Hanssen case.
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
The federal government pursued the death penalty against Brian Patrick Regan in 2003. The jury decided against the punishment, however, and is now serving a life sentence without parole.
Him or the Jury?
The prosecuters asked the jury to choose the death penalty but they declined to do so.
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt he actually intended to steal the laptops. Had he attempted to return them they would have caught on to his plan. It's unlikely that he would have taken them with him to Hong Kong as they would phone home. They are probably sitting at his home just waiting for the NSA to pick them up.
The laptops with files on them do demonstrate provenance of the data on them somewhat more so than standalone files, so he may have retained them for that purpose.
This Achilles heel of `theft of laptops' minimally should be listed in the `Don't List' of `Whistle Blowing For Dummies' to alternatively rather fatten up a Fry's $70 terra usb drive, cloud store it, etc.
Proving provenance of the data? No. If he can list it, he can edit, `touch' re-timestamp it, etc, ie, falsify it.
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only civilians executed for espionage in the US were the Rosenbergs in 1953 and that is widely seen as an overreaction that occurred in the context of the hysteria of the early Cold War. Only three people have been executed by the Federal government for any crime since 1963. It is incredibly unlikely that Snowden would be executed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_Unite...
You see, when "slippery slope fallacy" mode is fully engaged, information like that has no relevance. "They used it in 1953, they can do it again!"
Given that the political (un)likelihood of the death penalty was already addressed by GabrielF00, it's not clear to me how "slippery slope fallacy" is a valid dismissal when espionage is punishable by death and has been applied.
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#346The irony, Snowden being charged with espionage by the country that spies everyone...
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
Snowden is not, nor ought he be treated like or held to the standard of being, a soldier.
He signed the relevant NDAs and was granted Top Secret clearance. He's being held to the standard of anyone else who does that without enjoying some type of exceptional legal protection.
That is not the same thing as the comment to which I responded. Moreover, this isn't a simple matter of violating NDAs and TS clearance by mentioning classified information to some random persons. The situation is more profound and nuanced. He violated the NDAs and TS clearance to call the People's attention to unconstitutional programs that violate our rights and laws as a whistleblower. There is "some type of exceptional legal protection" to be evaluated there.
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
He signed the relevant NDAs and was granted Top Secret clearance. He's being held to the standard of anyone else who does that without enjoying some type of exceptional legal protection.
That is not the same thing as the comment to which I responded. Moreover, this isn't a simple matter of violating NDAs and TS clearance by mentioning classified information to some random persons. The situation is more profound and nuanced. He violated the NDAs and TS clearance to call the People's attention to unconstitutional programs that violate our rights and laws as a whistleblower. There is "some type of excep…
Just for the flipside though, he did this to call attention to unconstitutional programs in his opinion.
There is a reason we don't generally allow individuals to each individually determine what the Constitution does or does not mean.
There is a famous example in the military of an Army major (doctor) who refused to deploy to Afghanistan because he claimed it was unconstitutional.
You might think he was referring to the war, but instead he was referring to his Commander-in-Chief himself (Pres. Obama), who this major personally felt was a Muslim Kenyan who somehow managed to finagle himself into the Presidency.
It's hardly conclusive that what Snowden has revealed so far is even likely unconstitutional. It seems the most you can say is that the NSA is simply not being very nice at all to the rest of the world, but the Supreme Court decisions up to this point (including recent ones relating to Guantanamo's prison) have generally treated the rest of the world as not worthy of any but the most basic Constitutional protections.
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#349So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…
The pardon petition also only needs more 7k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Remember that the goal is to get the government address the issue, and show that the people are not fine with the NSA's actions. It would be nice to get them to actually pardon him, but that is a much harder goal.
Signed, thanks for posting!
Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage
#350So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…
If everyone that disagreed decided to call and write our congressmen, they would definitely be listening. Too bad most of the country is too lazy to do this...