U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#271

Post by alex_doom » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:03 AM UTC

saurabhnanda wrote: post #267

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

There's another way to demonstrate just how unhappy you are with the trampling of your basic rigthts. Guns. Go out on the streets in meaningful numbers brandishing unloaded guns to show the govt how serious you are about the issue. It's a much stronger form of protest IMO. (PS: I know I'll get downvoted for such radical comments, but moderation has stopped working with govts)

Needs a better catch phrase like "You can take away my ability to share digital files that the public needs to know about when you pry them from my cold dead hands!"

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#272

Post by stmartin » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:07 AM UTC

Hope it was worth it, Snowden. Good luck in jail.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#273

Post by logn » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:11 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

People need to organize and protest, online and in person. That means, an organized blackout like SOPA/PIPA and organized public (in real life) protests. I like the whitehouse.gov petitions, but I don't know of an instance where they've helped anything (in their short history). The Baby Boomers got plenty done with protests. And Google/Wikipedia/etc stopped SOPA/PIPA with a massive online blackout. Of course, the tech industry largely benefits from intelligence spending, so I'm not sure how much of a protest could be organized online. Perhaps the users themselves need to boycott any company not opposed to surveillance (say, replacing their avatar with some indication of their boycott and deleting all their content).

Also, I think we need the Republicans (or anyone) to impeach Obama, for the good of the country.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#274

Post by mcantelon » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:14 AM UTC

unimpressive wrote: post #76

"The same night two prominent Kadet leaders, Professor F. Kokoshkin, and Dr. A. Shingarev, were murdered in a hospital by a group of Bolshevik sailors. When Lenin heard of the ensuing protest meetings held by the Social Revolutionaries and the Mensheviks, he said cynically: 'Let them protest, let them bubble over with rage, let them rave some, sigh some, drink a lot of tea and talk until dawn; then they will surely s…

Yup. Since 9/11 the US state has been working hard to consolidate its domestic power, creating a domestic counter-insurgence force (the DHS) to circumvent the Posse Comitatus Act and a command-structure for military action within the continent (NORTHCOM), among many other complementary developments. Wherever the agenda originated, both political parties are following it and the power consolidation is unlikely to stop until completion barring some disruptive influence.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#275

Post by btilly » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:14 AM UTC

glurgh wrote: post #208

mpyne wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in the U.S. servicemembers are supposed to refuse to follow orders that are not lawful. You are right that such cases are (and are meant to be) exceptionally rare. The U.S. Supreme Court gives exceptionally wide latitude in what counts as a lawful order, and as far as I know no servicemember has ever been tried (much less convicted) for following a valid order (even if they thought it was illegal). But with…

He's in Hong Kong talking about US intelligence operations in Hong Kong. Short of the government not charging him for that specific thing (say, to avoid talking about it altogether), there's doesn't seem to be any way to avoid getting in trouble for it.

Everyone seems to be mad about that one.

However I've yet to see ANYONE in the mainstream press point out that the Obama administration was recently trying to pass legislation that reduced privacy protection for Americans as a response to the Chinese doing exactly what we are doing to the Chinese. There is a high level of hypocrisy here.

Call me an idealist, but my belief is that the USA as a country should take the moral high ground, even if it costs us tactically in the short run.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#276

Post by eli » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:26 AM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #253

eli wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that he took laptops belonging to the government.

Who cares? We're talking about widespread malfeasance and lawbreaking by the gov't against every citizen, and the world, vs a few crappy laptops.

The parent comment seemed to be questioning why he was charged with theft of government property.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#277

Post by signed0 » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:32 AM UTC

rdl wrote: post #27

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

I actually don't think charging him is inherently bad. If he in fact took 4 government property laptops with him, that's a crime, at the very least. Ideally, pre-trial investigation and a trial would be fair way to find facts. It's entirely possible minor crimes (violating classified NDA, taking laptops, etc.) would be non-conviction based on other information, but on its face, I don't really have a problem with init…

I doubt he actually intended to steal the laptops. Had he attempted to return them they would have caught on to his plan. It's unlikely that he would have taken them with him to Hong Kong as they would phone home.

They are probably sitting at his home just waiting for the NSA to pick them up.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#278

Post by coolhandluke » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:36 AM UTC

staunch wrote: post #47

For anyone else who thinks what he did was right: it's our job to make sure he gets pardoned. He did his part.

I would like to volunteer to serve on his jury.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#279

Post by rdl » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:38 AM UTC

mpyne wrote: post #231

shawnz wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes (or at least, possibly). > A federal agency violates the Whistleblower Protection Act if it takes or fails to take (or threatens to take or fail to take) a personnel action with respect to any employee or applicant because of any disclosure of information by the employee or applicant that he or she reasonably believes evidences a violation of a law, rule or regulation; gross mismanagement; gross waste of funds; a…

Looking up the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 [1] even more closely, it appears it won't apply to Snowden here. If the material is protected from disclosure by law or E.O. (like this was) then you can only report it to the Office of Special Counsel or the agency I.G. and receive whistleblower protection. It's in fact arguable that things like PRISM even violated any of those provisions, which makes it risky (on…

There is a difference between full protection (not being allowed to be fired) and not being convicted for 25-life under espionage act.

It would be insane to retain Snowden in his former role. He is an untrustworthy SCIF sysadmin. He might be worthwhile in the IG office or some public facing role, but I am fine if he is fired, clearance revoked, etc pre trial, even if his disclosures ultimately are positive and lead to legal changes and he isn't convicted.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#280

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 4:49 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired.

For what, doing their jobs? Protest by all means, but demanding that prosecutors be fired for executing the law is just ridiculous.