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New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

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Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#341

Post by lokar »

filoleg wrote: post #317
wegwerper wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, they actually ended up costing more to the employer than a local would, due to having to deal with immigration lawyers/filing fees/etc. (all while being paid the same as everyone else). I mean, you were actually underpaying the local workers if this was the case? If you offered the fully loaded salary to the local workers they might have accepted. Or the local going rate for qualified personel were higher…

> Or the local going rate for qualified personel were higher than you were willing to pay (which per def is true, if you had to bring in foreign work?). Nope, immigration fees/lawyer expenses are simply just a negligible cost in the grand scheme of things. When you hire someone earning $350k+ in annual TC, an extra $10-20k one-time cost of immigration-related expenses is a nothingburger for big tech companies. Along…

International relocation is much more, I’ve had close to 50k for just domestic.

But I never had the impression they cared about the amount very much.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#342

Post by lokar »

gosub100 wrote: post #328
lokar wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it’s well known all CS grads are equally good

yes, it's called ABET Accreditation https://www.abet.org/accreditation/find-programs Thats literally the point of getting a degree, to determine that all grads meet a set of minimum qualifications

Well, it’s not even close to working

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#343

Post by lokar »

xnx wrote: post #315
lokar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In software, groups of people (teams) have value far more than individuals. You need a large pool of talent to reliably build good teams. This includes some amount of the very best people world wide. These people gravitate towards big cities where they can earn more, access more amenities and work with other top talent. Remote could have changed that, but it seems to have fizzled for now.

> In software, groups of people (teams) have value far more than individuals. Modern AI turns skilled individuals into teams.

Writing the code was never the hard part.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#344

Post by lokar »

DragonStrength wrote: post #326
lokar wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best people I worked from (in the bay area) were from Switzerland, Germany, the UK, France , Israel, etc.

Were they on H1Bs? Most I knew from similar countries in the Bay Area wouldn’t have been. But these visas aren’t about best, btw. They’re about none available. The goalpost has moved to “none available for my price in the most expensive place on earth.” In my experience, the overall effect of these policies was hiring foreign masters students who were more exploitable over American undergraduates who would require th…

They all eventually became permanent residents and citizens. But they all start off as h1 or the one that lets you stay a while after finishing a PhD. Some switched to O-1 (or whatever the extraordinary talent one is).

I’ve worked with some amazing Austrians who had to go to 3rd country for a year waiting for the lottery.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#345

Post by pandaman »

fillskills wrote: post #102
lokar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my experience in big tech and HFT. We spent a ton of time and effort trying to find anyone to our standards, never able to find enough. H1B (and other work visas) were generally better and more Sr compared to locals we found. They got paid as much or more than everyone else. When we had great people we could not get here we would instead build a team overseas, taking a bunch of other jobs with them.

Looks like there is need for 2 separate visa categories: - One to bring top 0.1% talent from across the globe to the US - Another to bring in temporary talent as needed Current version of H1B had become a big basket to hold both, and abused too for just finding cheaper labor. It may be time to segment these out. Also, given that US has ~400 million local citizens, there should be less need for either.

We actually have more than 2. For the top talent, for example, you have a choice between O1 (nonimmigrant visa) and EB1{A,B} (immigrant category). Same we have multiple visas for temp workers of lesser qualifications: L,J, H2 for seasonal farm workers etc. H1B is just the most abused one as it's the key part of the very important F1->OPT->H1B scheme, which literally makes billions for American schools.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#346

Post by xnx »

lokar wrote: post #343
xnx wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In software, groups of people (teams) have value far more than individuals. Modern AI turns skilled individuals into teams.

Writing the code was never the hard part.

For you maybe. Code was hard/time-consuming for me, but all the other stuff was a breeze.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#347

Post by lokar »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #322
fillskills wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

O1 is also starting to get "gamed".

If you have citations, I can pass them along to policymakers.

My experience writing a letter for a colleague about 10 years ago was that it seemed pretty arbitrary and vague, just in terms of what I was asked to do.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#348

Post by alistairSH »

lokar wrote: post #339
alistairSH wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, not sure I really buy that argument. I've never had a problem hiring in the US. And this is for a mid-tier, mid-size software company that most people have never heard of, not located in SV, and PE-owned (not much in the way of big bonuses and no stock options).

I’ve interviewed hundreds of people over many years. Lucky to find one out of 10 that are good.

1/10 sounds in the ballpark - I think my ratio is better, but not by much. About half my interviews have been with candidates in India, half US, all for software engineering roles, mostly early to mid-career. Success rates weren't significantly different between the countries. Haven't had the chance to interview in Mexico yet, but we have an office there, so that'll probably happen soon.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#349

Post by alistairSH »

cogman10 wrote: post #14
foxtrot8672 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep. I see the same thing. Trump isn't wrong to hike fees for H1-B. For companies that shift development overseas they should face tariffs as well.

Yeah, I'm generally pretty pro-immigration and I'm very anti-H1B. It's very abusive to the workers hired as H1-B and it's designed for wage suppression. You can stay an H1-B for years. If you lose your job, you'll face deportation. It gives your employer a VERY large amount of leverage over your life. It's supposed to be about bringing expertise when local expertise isn't available, but in practice it's companies say…

I wouldn't be upset if we fixed both ends... make H1B an immigrant visa (they can apply for residency after ~7 years) and place reasonable minimum salaries (currently pegged at the prevailing local wage - probably should be 150% of that figure instead).

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#350

Post by pandaman »

PNewling wrote: post #335
rayiner wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember H1B is a lottery . So yes, some of them will have the qualifications to get hired at places like FAANG. But many (most?) are pretty mediocre. There's also an extra allocation for people who get "advanced degrees" from a U.S. university. That's also a lottery, so most of the spots go to graduates of diploma-mill Master's programs. These programs are very lucrative for third-tier schools.

I've often wondered what the best way to do this, if the goal was to bring over only top tier talent. I've heard it floated it could be a bidding system instead of a lottery (countered with the fact that only the biggest firms would be able to bid high enough to bring people in), but I'm not an economist so I don't know how that would all shake out. I think I'm more just speaking out loud here: what is the optimal wa…

H1B's goal is not to bring top tier talent, to qualify for one you need a bachelor's degree (or "equivalent experience") and a job that claims only people with a degree can do, that's all, that is the requirement (there is also a "fashion model" subcategory, which does not even require a degree). There are other visa categories for top talent, e.g. O-1, which has more requirements, which align better with top talent.
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