Live data from Hacker News

Apple - Think Twice

thenbells.com

341–350 of 407 posts

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#341
I'm typing this on my second Macbook Pro retina screen (bought mine day of release). I've been through this "test" before. Both times I didn't have an issue demonstrating it. I'm not overly pleased that the retina displays apparently have an "acceptable" ghosting rate, my experiences haven't been as bad as this bloggers.

Just to contrast the problems. That said, I agree the test is crap, the first time I tested it with a genius the test was rather vague as to what they were supposed to do. That and to be honest the JJ Abrams Star Trek lighting in the apple store didn't help when looking for ghosting in the store.

All in all, its not much different from most of Apples first gen "revolutionary" products. This being the first real "retina" 15" display likely means teething issues. That said, no i'm not excited about being a beta tester. But whatever, the machine has made me despise low dpi screens.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the point of paying the Apple premium if they are just the same as everybody else ? I think the fact that it is possible, it should not be the norm. As you can see in the article, the problem is not that he got a defective Monitor, is the fact that Apple is trying to avoid replacing it. If I buy the best, I expect the best. When I buy an Apple product, just like the author, I expect to get the best. If it…

> So what is the point of paying the Apple premium if they are just the same as everybody else ? OS X and increased quality of some (not all) hardware. And they do have better customer support on average.

OS X is not that amazing to pay for a premium. I also use Linux, and they are pretty good as well.

Hardware-wise, they are great as long as they can honor the warranty. If I get a defective machine (like in this case) and I had to pay a higher price for a defective hardware, that doesn't make it ok.

Apple is not about better products. It is about better execution of those products. I pay the premium because of Apple's execution.

Agreed, customer support is better on average, but not that much; not enough to justify the premium.

The premium is worth it because of the overall execution of the company. I pay more, but I get an implicit insurance that everything will just work.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're essentially saying that any computer with a metal case, or extensive metal shielding inside could suffer the same problem. HP makes a number of metal laptops, for instance, in an effort to make them more recyclable, the same reasoning behind Apple's materials decision. Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red jo…

> Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red joystick. And with that statement you just exposed how ignorant you really are. The TrackPoint is far superior to any trackpad out there. In fact, I don't even use a mouse with my desktop - I have a USB version of the ThinkPad keyboard[0]. With the TrackPoint, you can use the…

And with that statement you just exposed how ignorant you really are

I don't have any strong opinions about either ThinkPads or MacBooks, but I do care about HN. If you're not trying to be civil, please try. If you are trying, please try harder. Thanks.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#344
post #147

I had the same problem with a rMBP. Apple replaced mine at the Apple Store even though I couldn't show them the problem while I was there. They even gave me the extra charging brick that came in the new machine's box. I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock.

"I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock." That surprised me - I was looking at an MBP purchase at an Apple Store (fairly large one, Tacoma WA). My options were only 4GB and various sizes of HDDs. They "did not" stock 8GB models, or SSD models. Not "were out of", but did not. Th…

> They "did not" stock 8GB models, or SSD models. Not "were out of", but did not.

This is a Retina MacBook Pro, not the "traditional" MacBook Pros with the optical drive. All Retina MacBook Pros have SSDs, so I'm not sure what models you were looking at. In any event, Apple does carry the fully maxed out Retina MacBook Pro in the stores. I know because I bought one myself.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#345

Had this happen to my Retina MacBook Pro too. Went to the Apple store and after some pleading was able to get them to place an order for a new one. Two weeks of glazing over staring at ghosts later I go to pick it up. They upgraded the replacement to the largest size SSD for free! It was all down hill after that. I had to transfer my data from the lemon. The Geniuses on staff were clearly unfamiliar with some of the…

I don't want this question to sound loaded and threaded with negative connotations for/against apple but why would you label the computer as "one of the best I have ever used" if one of the primary interfaces to the user is repeatedly faulty? I'm not a Mac user. My work and personal desires drive me towards Windows/Linux and I would have foregone any manufacturer that pulled that type of behavior on me (as I have wit…

Good question - it is something I regularly wrestle with myself as I evaluate the various hardware and software options out there. In the end though, it always is a matter of tradeoffs based on your personal value system.

For the past few years, the most valuable property that I have tried to maximize when pitting multiple hardware offerings against each other is time. For other people it may be money, gaming performance, or other intrinsic values such as freedom.

For me, buying the latest Apple hardware as default has become the easiest way to maximize time: I do not need to perform exhaustive research across the market, the shopping experience is smooth, support is same day and local, the resale value is high and selling is easy, the hardware supports the tools I have built my current workflow around (a UNIX command line, emacs shortcuts system-wide, Xcode for iOS development, Photoshop, etc.), and configuration and backup is simple (iTunes, Migration Assistant, Time Machine, and iCloud for a limited scope of data).

Now obviously a lot of this is a result of vendor lock-in, which I try to remain vigilant about. How did I get fooled into being locked in?

It is simply a result of a string of great experiences early on in my dealings with the company. All companies provide varying levels of experience across their lineup of products and services. In my opinion, Apple manages to have more peaks in more fields that matter to me. The early positive experiences in areas that resonate deeply with me, built a great deal of respect and trust in the people who create things at Apple, earning them the spot as my default hardware

Regarding the Retina MacBook Pro product specifically: it is still "one of the best [computers] I have ever used" because it hits peaks in many right spots. The performance, portability, keyboard and trackpad, how it fits in my backpack and on my desk, design, ecosystem, and OS X are all positives for me. What I believe to be low points (Wi-Fi issues, video card performance in certain situations, Mission Control, the annoying MagSafe 2 adapter, iPhoto woes, etc.), are tradeoffs I am willing to make.

The "ghosting" is the one point I cannot concede. I work with pixels and color too much to let it slide. Thus far, Apple has offered me one replacement, with a free SSD update thrown in. I consider that great support, but poor quality control.

This is an interesting tradeoff because of how the two fields are closely related. Poor quality control necessitates good support. Whether that support is good enough (or the quality control poor enough) for me to continue leaving Apple's hardware as my default depends on whether they offer me another replacement, and whether that one is satisfactory.

Times change though. Open hardware and software is more important to me than ever. We must all be able to tune the properties of our hardware and software to our liking, without sacrificing the state of the art.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#346

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter th…

My advice is to use what the government has set out for people to use: the courts. Sue them in small claims court.

Apple has sold something that is not suitable for its intended purpose, and has breached warranties required by law such as warranty of merchantability.

Even a place like Texas has the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. Under this act a consumer can sue for breach of these warranties and receive damages, AND get court costs and attorneys fees!

Take them to small claims, you will probably win, if they show up at all.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#347

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter th…

Well said. If the customer is unhappy with the product, there is a problem.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#348

Interesting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced. I had bought a 15" retina MBP at launch, but only noticed the ghosting last month. After booking an appointment with a 'genius' online I arrived ready to argue my case. What actually happened was that the 'genius' agreed with me straight away that the ghosting was intolerable, and without doi…

Both Dell and Lenovo offer on-site service where a tech comes to you. It's an upgrade from their "standard" warranty service, but totally worth the extra $, especially if you rely on your computer. In addition, they both have "accidental damage" with some of the higher-end warranties, so they'll cover you e.g. if you spill soda in your laptop. More info: Lenovo: http://www.lenovo.com/services_warranty/US/en/lenovo-wa…

For what it's worth, Apple also offers on-site with AppleCare.

And then in the cases for certain quality programs, such as the iMac hard drive replacement [1], they will do on-site even if you don't have AppleCare and/or are out of your 1 year warranty.

[1]: http://www.apple.com/au/support/imac-harddrive/

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most markets, the law does not allow beta products and caveat emptor. Warranties against product flaws are mandatory. Personally, I would consider ghosting as shown by the OP a defect covered by warranty. In addition to that, a premium brand should treat early adopters well, especially those who bought the flagship product. This is the point OP seems to be making. However, due to their own design decisions, they h…

"...Warranties against product flaws are mandatory..." If that were true... the software industry would be in REAL trouble.

Do you agree to an EULA when buying an MBP or another laptop, implicitly or otherwise? Serious question.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#350

As this article pertains to screen issues how about we discuss this a little bit rather than engaging in senseless rants? The "ghosting" issue the article highlights is a known problem with certain types of LCD screens. With a caveat I'll say that LG LCD panels are known for these kinds of issues much more so than Samsung's. The caveat is that ALL OEM LCD manufacturers have issues, all of them. The other very importa…

I think you are defending the quality of a companies products by passing blame to it's suppliers. Apple chose it's suppliers, decided the product met their standards and shipped it. I've got 3 computers in front of me now. An 11" air, 26" iMac and 12.5 Lenovo. None of the screens have ghosting issues, I'm sure some of the screens are produced by LG or Samsung. None are retinal displays, but that was Apple's decision…

Not defending anyone. Just explaining one possible reality of a supply and manufacturing pipeline that moves that fast.
Post reply on HN