Apple - Think Twice • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#141

Post by tatsuke95 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:21 PM UTC

michael_miller wrote: post #73

I can't help but think that the majority of comments here are the loud minority. Apple's products have had faults, I'll be the first to admit. But do we really think that even 5% of Apple's millions of customers are having issues with their purchases? If that were the case, we'd see class action lawsuits against the company, the NYTimes/WSJ covering Apple's shoddy manufacturing processes, and Apple's reputation takin…

>"It's a little disappointing to see these hyperbolic comments on a site I normally associate with an educated, smart, logically-thinking group of people."

What's really disappointing is that there are educated, smart, logically-thinking people who refuse to believe that there is any hype behind the quality and customer service of Apple. Both are okay, but not exceptional.

I'm on my second MBA. I had the 2010 model, then traded it in for the 2011. The first model was good; never had a problem, but only owned it for a year. This latest version is having trackpad issues: I use real click, not tap-to-click. But my trackpad has become so sensitive to pressure that you can hardly rest your finger on the pad without a click registering. When doing anything more than web-browsing, it's nearly unusable, requiring me to carry a mouse around.

Now this sucks, because to me the Apple trackpad is the biggest reason for owning one of their laptops. I have Apple Care, but they seem to think that everything is fine. So I'm out of luck...until I get a new laptop. The next one can't be an Apple.

As the author writes, it's hard to understand being told you have no issue, when there is clearly a problem. And this tarnishes Apple's reputation for HIGH quality and GREAT customer service.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#142

Post by ricg » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:22 PM UTC

Thanks for posting this. I thought about buying one before the end of the year, but now I'll wait for the second generation.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#143

Post by konstruktor » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:22 PM UTC

Mutinix wrote: post #57

konstruktor wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When batteries for my 2006 MBP's model had problems, Apple issued a recall. I got a new one in a UPS box that I could use to send the old one back. This cost apple parts and shipping, not even a technician's time. Service like this is much harder to provide if the computers you build are not repairable at all. They created a situation where fixing one problem means exchanging the whole unit. That is their own fault.…

From my understanding of the comment, he wasn't blaming the customer. Rather, he's trying to say that people shouldn't rush to buy the revision A (or version 1 or 1st generation or whatever) of an Apple product. Instead, wait for the initial (and what are now expected) flaws to be fixed and then buy them. However, I think this is a problem that is likely to happen with any company, not just Apple.

In most markets, the law does not allow beta products and caveat emptor. Warranties against product flaws are mandatory. Personally, I would consider ghosting as shown by the OP a defect covered by warranty. In addition to that, a premium brand should treat early adopters well, especially those who bought the flagship product. This is the point OP seems to be making. However, due to their own design decisions, they have made this very expensive, which incentivizes them to provide shitty service, which is damaging their brand image.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#144

Post by zackmorris » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:23 PM UTC

I was an Apple certified repair technician for three years until 2010 and the ghosting issue is very real, I saw it on several displays. The best thing is to just keep calling them/going to an Apple store until they fix it for free. I agree that their customer service could use some work in this department.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#145

Post by Pfiffer » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:24 PM UTC

LaGrange wrote: post #79

meaty wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes the unibody which is basically a fucking big short circuit, hence why mine caught fire. It's engineering, but it's not SOUND ENGINEERING. I stand by my expensive trinket comment. Buy a Lenovo T-series and you'll understand.

Last time I've disassembled a Lenovo laptop it still had the entire thin aluminum shield thingie inside, y'know. And desktops are made of metal instead of wood and rich corinthian leather for (a bunch of) reason(s). On the other hand, my experiences with Lenovo T-series were mostly of the "flimsy pieces of crap that only look solid" category (but maybe I was just less than lucky). Aggregated studies of customer satis…

Have you ever done the "flex test" with an MBA and a T61? Very noticeable different with a magnesium rollcage vs. an aluminum unibody. There is no flex in a T61.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#146

Post by spitx » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:24 PM UTC

meaty wrote: post #87

astrodust wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're essentially saying that any computer with a metal case, or extensive metal shielding inside could suffer the same problem. HP makes a number of metal laptops, for instance, in an effort to make them more recyclable, the same reasoning behind Apple's materials decision. Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red jo…

No I'm not. I'm saying that there is no acceptable insulation in the device. The chassis for example uses air gap between the board and the base for insulation. Even condensation can bridge it, which is the theory why mine exploded. Regarding appearance, and? Does that really matter? Why you pick a ThinkPad: http://appel.hu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/rollcage.jpg That and you can throw the damn thing across the…

Shucks.

I don't even have a dog in this fight except for the following facts

1) I am a current owner of the storied T61 and 2) I have grown fond of the stupendously neat rMBP and am mulling getting one.

  That and you can throw the damn thing across the room and
  it'll still work. Mine is 5 years old, has been thrown,
  dropped, spilled on, yanked off the table, stood on and
  it's as good as new.

Now that I've been made familiar with the fact that the T61 is in very small company of notebooks that can put up with even moderate household battery - a fact I've long suspected but never gloated about, given it's outmodedness - I am suddenly struck with angst over my limited options.

Yes, T61 is all those things that the author mentioned.

My T61 has survived falls on hardwood floors, physical shocks in poorly padded cases and other uncharitable abuse.

I just can't fathom the prospect of not being able to do all those things to my new notebook, whatever the eventual pick is.

rMBP owners: Please do share your insights into the mean level of abuse your units have handsomely survived.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#147

Post by jad » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:25 PM UTC

I had the same problem with a rMBP. Apple replaced mine at the Apple Store even though I couldn't show them the problem while I was there. They even gave me the extra charging brick that came in the new machine's box.

I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#148

Post by stuartmemo » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:25 PM UTC

iaskwhy wrote: post #92

robin_reala wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 years in Europe.

Not in the UK though.

UK is no different from the rest of Europe. 2 years - Apple just don't make it obvious.

http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#149

Post by tatsuke95 » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:27 PM UTC

dusing wrote: post #115

jscheel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could consistently re-create antennagate on my iphone 4 every single time I "held it wrong." I was forced to completely change the way I help my phone, permanently.

You could have returned the phone, you were not forced to do anything.

Typical exchange:

Person A: Apple is amazing. Antenna-gate was mass media nonsense.

Person B: I, personally, had major problems with the antenna.

Person C: Why don't you just get rid of your phone then? No one told you to buy one.

Or, I can demand the quality and service I expect from a premium product. What's wrong with that?

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#150

Post by kevinalexbrown » Mon, Dec 03, 2012, 5:28 PM UTC

My perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough.

Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter the customer's experience at all: the ghosting still exists.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Apple was smart to behave this way, or what the tolerances should be - I don't have a dog in this fight. Instead, I just wanted to highlight something I have to be reminded of from time to time, in different contexts: no one cares whether you think their problem is real, they care whether the problem still exists for them.

Obvious point: This goes for more than just computer products.