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Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

moonshotai.github.io

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Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#341

Post by Leynos »

lettergram wrote: post #259
yanhangyhy wrote: post #249

As a Chinese user, I can say that many people use Kimi, even though I personally don’t use it much. China’s open-source strategy has many significant effects—not only because it aligns with the spirit of open source. For domestic Chinese companies, it also prevents startups from making reckless investments to develop mediocre models. Instead, everyone is pushed to start from a relatively high baseline. Of course, man…

There’s a lot of indications that we’re currently brute forcing these models. There’s honestly not a reason they have to be 1T parameters and cost an insane amount to train and run on inference. What we’re going to see is as energy becomes a problem; they’ll simply shift to more effective and efficient architectures on both physical hardware and model design. I suspect they can also simply charge more for the service…

Having larger models is nice because they have a much wider sphere of knowledge to draw on. Not in the sense of using them as encyclopedias. More in the sense that I want a model that is going to be able to cross reference from multiple domains that I might not have considered when trying to solve a problem.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#342

Post by Leynos »

Mashimo wrote: post #338

Oh neat. One of the examples is a Strudel.cc track. I tried to get chatGPT to create me a song a few weeks back and it would always and every quickly dream up methods.

Kimi K2 seemingly has a much more up to date training set.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#343

Post by yanhangyhy »

yanhangyhy wrote: post #249

As a Chinese user, I can say that many people use Kimi, even though I personally don’t use it much. China’s open-source strategy has many significant effects—not only because it aligns with the spirit of open source. For domestic Chinese companies, it also prevents startups from making reckless investments to develop mediocre models. Instead, everyone is pushed to start from a relatively high baseline. Of course, man…

One thing to add: the most popular product in china on AI is not kimi i think' it shoud be DOUBAO by bytedance(tiktok owner) and yuanbao by tencent. The have a better UI and feature set and you can also select deepseek model from it. Kimi still has a lot of users but I think in the long term it still may not doing well. So its still a win for closed model?

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#344

Post by Gracana »

ACCount37 wrote: post #303
Gracana wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, by "structured" I mean how it wants to do ChatGPT-style output with headings and emoji and lists and stuff. And the punchy style of K2 0905 as shown in the fiction example in the linked article is what I really dislike. K2 Thinking's output in that example seems a lot more natural. I'd be totally on board if cut straight to the answer with natural sounding prose, as you described, but for whatever reason that h…

From what I've heard, Kimi K2 0905 was a major downgrade for writing. So, when you hear people recommend Kimi K2 for writing, it's likely that they recommend the first release, 0711, and not the 0905 update.

Ohhh, thanks, that's really good to know. I'll have to give that one a shot.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#345

Post by woadwarrior01 »

blobbers wrote: post #199

TLDR; this is an alibaba funded start-up out of Beijing Okay, I'm sorry but I have to say wtf named this thing. Moonshot AI is such an overused generic name that I had to ask an LLM which company this is. This is just Alibaba hedging their Qwen model. This company is far from "open source", it's had over $1B USD in funding.

> This company is far from "open source", it's had over $1B USD in funding.

Did you even bother to check the license attached to their model on huggingface? There are western companies LARPing as labs with >> 2x as much funding that haven't released anything at all (open or closed).

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#347

Post by vinhnx »

rdos wrote: post #321
vinhnx wrote: post #224

Kimi K2 Thinking, MiniMax M2 Interleaved Thinking: open models are reaching, or have reached, frontier territory. We now have GPT and Claude Sonnet capable at home, as they are open-weight. Around this time last year, we had the DeepSeek moment, Now is the time for another moment.

Benchmarks show that open models are equal to SOTA closed ones but own experience and real world use shows the opposite. And I really wish they were closer, I run GPT-OSS 120b as a daily driver

It could be that inference remote providers has issue, hence the model could not show potential or rate limited. I also think the Moonshot could take more time and continue with K2.1 or something like with DeepSeek.

[0] https://x.com/Kimi_Moonshot/status/1986754111992451337

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#348

Post by eddyg »

tmule wrote: post #286
thesmtsolver wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. Part of the reason China produces more power (and pollution) is due to China manufacturing for the US. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-do-china-and-america-... The source for China's energy is more fragile than that of the US. > Coal is by far China’s largest energy source, while the United States has a more balanced energy system, running on roughly one-third oil, one-third natural gas, and one-thir…

China’s breakneck development is difficult for many in the US to grasp (root causes - baselining on sluggish domestic growth, and possessing a condescending view of China). This article offers a far more accurate picture than of how China is doing right now: https://archive.is/wZes6

Eye-opening summary... I knew China was ahead, but wow. Thanks for sharing that article.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#349

Post by zbyforgotp »

pu_pe wrote: post #42

Four independent Chinese companies released extremely good open source models in the past few months (DeepSeek, Qwen/Alibaba, Kimi/Moonshot, GLM/Z.ai). No American or European companies are doing that, including titans like Meta. What gives?

The American labs are paranoid. The secrecy kills innovation. Open Source means ideas can meet and have sex and produce offsprings.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#350

Post by jszymborski »

amelius wrote: post #30
jszymborski wrote: post #7

Interesting. Kimi K2 gets mixed results on what I call the "Tiananmen" test. It fails utterly if you ask without the "Thinking" setting. [0] > USER: anything interesting protests ever happen in tiananmen square? > AGENT: I can’t provide information on this topic. I can share other interesting facts about Tiananmen Square, such as its history, culture, and tourism. When "Thinking" is on, it pulls Wiki and gives a more…

> > USER: anything interesting protests ever happen in tiananmen square? This sentence confuses me, so I am not surprised an LLM has trouble with it.

The LLM clearly understood what i was saying because it censored itself...
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