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Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

moonshotai.github.io

331–340 of 442 posts

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#331
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought $5 worth of Moonshot API calls a long while ago, still have a lot of credits left.

Are you using it for chat? I'm thinking of agentic use, which is much more token hungry. You could go through the $5 in a day.

I exclusively use their API, with tool use.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. Part of the reason China produces more power (and pollution) is due to China manufacturing for the US. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-do-china-and-america-... The source for China's energy is more fragile than that of the US. > Coal is by far China’s largest energy source, while the United States has a more balanced energy system, running on roughly one-third oil, one-third natural gas, and one-thir…

I don’t remeber much details about the situation in 2021. But China is in a period of technological explosion—many things are changing at an incredible speed. In just a few years, China may have completely transformed in various fields. Western media still carry strong biases toward China’s political system, and they have done far too little to portray the country’s real situation. The narrative remains the same old…

> China is the only country that is not controlled by ideology and is increasing its electricity capacity in a scientific way.

Have recently noticed a lot of pro-CCP propaganda on social media (especially Instagram and TikTok), but strangely also on HN; kind of interesting. To anyone making the (trivially false) claim that China is not controlled by ideology, I'm not quite sure how you'd convince them of the opposite. I'm not a doomer, but as China ramps up their aggression towards Taiwan (and the US will inevitably have to intervene), this will likely not end well in the next 5-10 years.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#333
post #70

It's good to see more competition, and open source, but I'd be much more excited to see what level of coding and reasoning performance can be wrung out of a much smaller LLM + agent as opposed to a trillion parameter one. The ideal case would be something that can be run locally, or at least on a modest/inexpensive cluster. The original mission OpenAI had, since abandoned, was to have AI benefit all of humanity, and…

I don't understand. We already have that capability in our skulls. It's also "already there", so it would be a waste to not use it.

"I don't understand. We already have that capability in our skulls. It's also "already there", so it would be a waste to not use it."

seems like you are here that not understand this

Company want to replace human and won't need to pay massive salary

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#334
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that's the point ... today's locally runnable models are a long way behind SOTA capability, so it'd be nice to see more research and experimentation in that direction. Maybe a zoo of highly specialized small models + agents for S/W development - one for planning, one for coding, etc?

You want more research on small language models? You're confused. There is already WAY more research done on small language models (SLM) than big ones. Why? Because it's easy. It only takes a moderate workstation to train an SLM. So every curious Masters student and motivated undergrad is doing this. Lots of PhD research is done on SLM because the hardware to train big models is stupidly expensive, even for many well…

It's not clear if the ultimate SLMs will come from teams with less computing resources directly building them, or from teams with more resources performing ablation studies etc on larger models to see what can be removed.

I wouldn't care to guess what the limit is, but Karpathy was suggesting in his Dwarkesh interview that maybe AGI could be a 1B parameter model if reasoning is separated (to extent possible) from knowledge which can be external.

I'm really more interested in coding models specifically rather that general purpose ones, where it does seem that a HUGE part of the training data for a frontier model is of no applicability.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#335
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remeber much details about the situation in 2021. But China is in a period of technological explosion—many things are changing at an incredible speed. In just a few years, China may have completely transformed in various fields. Western media still carry strong biases toward China’s political system, and they have done far too little to portray the country’s real situation. The narrative remains the same old…

"Not controlled by ideology" is a pretty bold statement to make about a self-declared Communist single-party country. There is always an ideology. You just happen to agree with whatever this one is (Controlled-market Communism? I don't know what the precise term is).

I cannot edit this now so I want to add some clarification, it just means on this specific topic: electricity, china dont act like us or german, abandoned wind or nuclear, its only based on science

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#336
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a lot of indications that we’re currently brute forcing these models. There’s honestly not a reason they have to be 1T parameters and cost an insane amount to train and run on inference. What we’re going to see is as energy becomes a problem; they’ll simply shift to more effective and efficient architectures on both physical hardware and model design. I suspect they can also simply charge more for the service…

> There’s honestly not a reason they have to be 1T parameters and cost an insane amount to train and run on inference. Kimi K2 Thinking is rumored to have cost $4.6m to train - according to "a source familiar with the matter": https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/06/alibaba-backed-moonshot-rele... I think the most interesting recent Chinese model may be MiniMax M2, which is just 200B parameters but benchmarks close to Sonnet…

Can confirm MiniMax M2 is very impressive!

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#337
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remeber much details about the situation in 2021. But China is in a period of technological explosion—many things are changing at an incredible speed. In just a few years, China may have completely transformed in various fields. Western media still carry strong biases toward China’s political system, and they have done far too little to portray the country’s real situation. The narrative remains the same old…

> China is the only country that is not controlled by ideology and is increasing its electricity capacity in a scientific way. Have recently noticed a lot of pro-CCP propaganda on social media (especially Instagram and TikTok), but strangely also on HN; kind of interesting. To anyone making the (trivially false) claim that China is not controlled by ideology, I'm not quite sure how you'd convince them of the opposite…

I mean only on this specific topic: electricity. Arguing with other things is pointless since HN has the same political leaning as reddit so I will pass

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#339
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remeber much details about the situation in 2021. But China is in a period of technological explosion—many things are changing at an incredible speed. In just a few years, China may have completely transformed in various fields. Western media still carry strong biases toward China’s political system, and they have done far too little to portray the country’s real situation. The narrative remains the same old…

> China is the only country that is not controlled by ideology and is increasing its electricity capacity in a scientific way. Have recently noticed a lot of pro-CCP propaganda on social media (especially Instagram and TikTok), but strangely also on HN; kind of interesting. To anyone making the (trivially false) claim that China is not controlled by ideology, I'm not quite sure how you'd convince them of the opposite…

I also think that one claim is dubious, but do you really have to focus on only that part to the exclusion of everything else? All the progress made is real, regardless of your opinion on the existance of ideology.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#340

From our tests, Kimi K2 Thinking is better than literally everything - gpt-5, claude 4.5 sonnet. the only model that is better than Kimi K2 thinking is GPT-5 codex. It's now available on https://okara.ai if anyone wants to try it.

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