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Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#341

Post by wojtek1942 »

lordofgibbons wrote: post #323

Maybe a stupid question but: given the massive vulnerability surface area that a browser presents, why would one choose to build it in C++ instead of something memory and concurrency safe like Rust? I know Rust doesn't automatically make the software safe, but it does rule out a very large % of the exploitable vulnerabilities allowed by unsafe languages like C and C++.

Why build a new browser in C++ when safer and more modern languages are available? [1]

> Ladybird started as a component of the SerenityOS hobby project, which only allows C++. The choice of language was not so much a technical decision, but more one of personal convenience. Andreas was most comfortable with C++ when creating SerenityOS, and now we have almost half a million lines of modern C++ to maintain.

> However, now that Ladybird has forked and become its own independent project, all constraints previously imposed by SerenityOS are no longer in effect.

> We have evaluated a number of alternatives, and will begin incremental adoption of Swift as a successor language, once Swift version 6 is released.

[1] https://ladybird.org/#faq:~:text=Why%20build%20a%20new%20bro...?

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#342

Post by xeromal »

slightwinder wrote: post #141
robinhood wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great strength of Omarchy is the fact that they've repackaged every good things from many different projects (arch, hyperland, and many packages) so I can install a fully functional distro with nice defaults, and every hardware working (bluetooth etc...), in less than 3 minutes without any interaction whatsoever. And it just works. Not because of Omarchy per se, but because they scripted the hell out of it so it…

How well does it work if I want to move outside the scripted defaults?

Don't. Just use arch if you plan on changing. It's not for you

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#343

Post by xenelor »

cal85 wrote: post #326
xenelor wrote: post #275

The hype around Omarchy is just insane.. It is not an installer script (anymore), so instead you have to download a 7GB ISO file (in the name of 'good UX') that ships with Zoom, Spotify, Hey, Basecamp, Steam, Minecraft (??), etc. but you still end up using the same package mirrors (arch's). If it was an install script, like LARBS or many others (before and after omarchy), I'd (almost) get it. If it was a derivative d…

7 gigabytes? With a “G”? That must take 10s of seconds, minutes even. And for what, a ‘good experience’? Humans make no sense to me either.

"This is a 7GB ISO that includes the entire system for offline installation (just 1/10th the size of macOS!)."

This is literally from Omarchy's release notes. How is it a problem if I make a comparison but it's ok when DHH does it :) Anyhow, you do you.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#344

Post by xenelor »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #295
xenelor wrote: post #275

The hype around Omarchy is just insane.. It is not an installer script (anymore), so instead you have to download a 7GB ISO file (in the name of 'good UX') that ships with Zoom, Spotify, Hey, Basecamp, Steam, Minecraft (??), etc. but you still end up using the same package mirrors (arch's). If it was an install script, like LARBS or many others (before and after omarchy), I'd (almost) get it. If it was a derivative d…

Omarchy iso is literally 2 minutes from boot from usb to a productive pc

Good for you.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#345

Post by nomdep »

youngtaff wrote: post #183
nomdep wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So are you also going to list the fact that 40% of people who got arrested in 2024 anti-immigrant riots also had convictions for domestic and sexual violence Being arrested for ‘wrong think’ is often a case of being arrested for inciting violence or racial hatred There are more white grooming gangs than Pakistani ones etc… etc… DHH’s post just picked the stories that suited his bias

What? This is not my list. I am merely listing what the post says and asking which one of those aren't true. You are taking it like a personal attack.

> There are more white grooming gangs than Pakistani ones

So the situation is even worse! (why do you even care about the nationality of the perverts?)

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#346

Post by zarzavat »

nurbel wrote: post #80
zarzavat wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LuaJIT was developed by one person. Ladybird doesn't need hundreds of millions of dollars, it needs interpreter specialists who are willing to lend their time to the project, and an army of volunteers to work on the rest of the rendering engine.

why do you think the js interpreter is that special compared to all the rest? AFAIU, CSS is a much more complex beast, as the spec has not been written to reflect the way it could be implemented

Writing JS JITs is a specialized skill that requires a deep knowledge of compilers, JavaScript, and CPU architectures.

CSS is complicated but it's not as complex. It's just a matter of throwing enough sufficiently competent developers at the problem.

Ladybird doesn't even have a JIT right now. They used to, but it got taken out because as best as I can tell, nobody on the project knows how to write one.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#347

Post by dagi3d »

ForHackernews wrote: post #55
coconut08 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

omarchy has brought in thousands of new linux users that previously had no interest in desktop linux. its one of the best things that has happened to desktop linux in recent memory. most everythign else in linux is incestuous self referential stuff for people who already use linux. that is why it is different.

I'd like to see a citation on that. I don't think I've ever encountered Omarchy outside the pages of this website. SteamOS seems far more consequential to me in terms of end-user Linux adoption. Something like https://www.anduinos.com/ is far friendlier and more approachable for folks new to Linux. Why not sponsor that? I cannot imagine who the target audience is going from MacOS straight to TUIs on Arch.

I guess the only real data of non-linux users switching to omarchy as of today, are the 37signals employees (including those that will be forced to use it)

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#348

Post by arunc »

xenelor wrote: post #275

The hype around Omarchy is just insane.. It is not an installer script (anymore), so instead you have to download a 7GB ISO file (in the name of 'good UX') that ships with Zoom, Spotify, Hey, Basecamp, Steam, Minecraft (??), etc. but you still end up using the same package mirrors (arch's). If it was an install script, like LARBS or many others (before and after omarchy), I'd (almost) get it. If it was a derivative d…

I don't really mind 7GB ISO file. What gets my nerve is the default packaging of shit-load of unnecessary apps.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#349

Post by Vinnl »

oefrha wrote: post #19

I’m skeptical. Cloudflare clearly wants to move us to a future where only approved browsers are allowed to access the web. People have been fiercely debating whether that’s a terrible thing, or whether that’s the least bad practical solution on offer for website owners. I don’t want to make a judgement on that, but I don’t think the observation that CF is pushing us in that direction is very controversial. But an ind…

Honestly the post tries to frame it under the banner of the open web, and offers some justifications for Omarchy that I think could all also apply to a project like Bluefin, so it feels a bit flimsy. My guess would be that it's just that someone with access to the purse strings got excited about both projects and decided to fund them, without necessarily a larger play in mind.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#350

Post by thewebguyd »

pseudosavant wrote: post #307
fabrice_d wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think they moved to Chromium then? They switched because they could not support a competitive engine by themselves.

Because no amount of money was going to solve the problem of people saying they think Microsoft's browser is slower/worse/etc. Switching to Chromium negated that in a way nothing else could. When Microsoft beat Netscape with IE, it was by building a far better browser. Google is a stronger competitor than Netscape ever was though. Without Google dropping the ball (like Netscape), Microsoft would never exceed Chrome's…

We have enough people of working age now that hasn't lived through the Microsoft of old and don't remember what they can/could do.

Microsoft firing on all cylinders, when they want to, is a terrifying force.

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