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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#341

Post by nkrisc »

kube-system wrote: post #215
amiga386 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the EU regulations, which not only: 1. _require_ dishwashers to have an Eco mode, not locked behind anything, but also 2. _require_ Eco mode to be the default . If you buy a dishwasher in the EU and turn it on, and press "start", it'll be on Eco mode, the mode that uses the least water/power. If you don't care about the dishwasher other than to turn it on, and it works for you, then everybody wins.…

That sounds annoying too. I want the default to be the one that does what I want it to do, clean a normal load of dishes, and do a good job at it. My dishwasher defaults to the last mode I set it to. > I find it absolutely crazy that a German company, when given free rein in the USA, would actually paywall Eco mode. It's just mind-boggling. ... they didn't do that. There is no paywall.

> ... they didn't do that. There is no paywall.

Where I live internet access isn’t provided for free.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#342

Post by felindev »

bandrami wrote: post #261

I live in an apartment building whose walls don't really attenuate RF at all. And like most of the building I have a Samsung "smart" TV. So most evenings I get three or four screencast requests from neighbors' phones that I have to deny. That's annoying enough but it also stops whatever I'm watching in the process. The manual didn't include instructions for turning off Bluetooth, and when I called Samsung they said y…

LTT made a video [0] where they tried "5G blocking paint" in real world scenario, this is always an option if you like black.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5BOFsiDpYQ

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#343

Post by LocalH »

saaaaaam wrote: post #23

I had this dishwasher in a rental property I was living in. The landlord fitted it a month or so after I moved in because the old dishwasher died. I was very skeptical of a WiFi connected dishwasher. Very quickly, I loved it. It’s actually REALLY useful to be able to get a ping on my Apple watch that the dishwasher has finished. Once upon a time I had a dishwasher where the door popped open when it was finished. That…

That's what they WANT. They want you to be just satisfied enough that you accept the lack of local control, the cloud-first approach that allows them control over the device you paid for (or in this case, the landlord paid for, and essentially made the decision for you).

Cloud-first hardware is trash, and should be illegal to sell. Cloud-optional is one thing, but it should always be possible to perform 100% of the capabilities of a piece of hardware that you buy, without some bullshit cloud or subscription.

I consider it to be a very "rapey" mindset on the part of these companies. They will get the data they want, or you'll get a worthless pile of plastic and metal that barely counts as a functional device.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#344

Post by nextts »

WuxiFingerHold wrote: post #297
nextts wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bosch knows how to perfect asshole design. On some of their ovens there is a secret key sequence (like game cheat) to get the buttons working again. Every 6 months you need to do this otherwise pay for a service call to do this. Or have a defunct oven. But it is not public info they have released (but had been leaked on YT) So they have software with a bug and a workaround they won't tell you about. Ideally they shou…

I don't believe this. It's illegal in many countries. No way a large German (after Dieselgate they all are very cautious) company like Bosch would make such a stupid move. If they did they'd face countless lawsuits and a ban in many countries (first would be the USA).

Not saying it was intentional

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#345

Post by atoav »

m463 wrote: post #62
btbuildem wrote: post #47

One thing I've learned when buying a full set of appliances couple of years ago: don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet -- instead, go to industry literature, and read reports by/for service and warranty providers. They have actual hard data on the types and frequency of problems across brands and models. But back to the main theme of the article: hell to the no was my initial attitude, and…

> Needless to say, none of these ever even got anywhere near being set up, I have an LG soundbar never set up, or connected to any wifi. and when my phone gets near it, it asks to connect to an airplay device. I think that might be a fatal flaw to even getting a wifi enabled device - maybe someone in the adjacent apartment can do the initial setup if you didn't. hopefully these devices have a physical component to in…

I have wifi enables debices that I decided to build myself because in that market segment nobody offered a no-bullshit option that works with home-assistant.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#346

Post by LocalH »

ryandrake wrote: post #28
nicolaslem wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am willing to bet that these features you started relying on will stop working within five years.

I'd also make that but, but only at ten years. It's unlikely but possible that the manufacturer might actually keep the backend service running for 5-10 years without it failing from incompetence or doing a deliberate rug pull. But, I'd surely bet its gone in ten years.

They shouldn't go away in fifty years. The manufacturer should have zero say in what your device can do after you buy it, especially such pedestrian features as a rinse cycle, which has been a standard built-in feature of dishwashers for decades. There is nothing about a rinse cycle that demands a tether to the manufacturer.

I really don't understand why these trash devices are so popular. Is the average person really clueless enough that they'll buy into all this shit just so they can use an app to control their shit? And if so, why is the carrot of extreme convenience enough for people to literally give up control of their hardware to the manufacturer?

I hope this shit get hacked ten ways to Sunday. Fuck these rent-seeking bastards. Hacking is the one true equalizer. Unlicensed bread indeed.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#347

Post by adamsrog »

I actually just purchased a Bosch 500 series two days ago to replace my piece of trash Samsung dishwasher that stopped working. Supposed to be delivered in a week. Was deciding between Bosch and Kitchenaid based on recommendations. This kind of crap in appliances is so annoying. I will cancel my order from Home Depot and get something else. Thank you for this very timely post.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#348

Post by meling »

Kind of related. I gave my dad my old iPhone years ago, and when he bought a new car, the car’s app was unsupported on his phone’s version of iOS. He ended up having to get a new phone as well as a new car. (It’s nice to start heating up the car before leaving the office.)

I can imagine the same happening with connected appliances. You have to get a new phone to talk to your old dishwasher because the vendor updated the app to only work on the newest phones.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#349

Post by BrunoBernardino »

I've been thinking for a while about building a directory of sorts of product categories and products that are "dumb" (not connected to the cloud, or don't require it to function). I've done a lot of research for some and have a list myself.

If anyone thinks that'd be interesting and have thoughts/comments/suggestions or just would want to know about it, you can find my email in my profile and I'd love to hear from you!

(New) "dumb" cars are just impossible to find nowadays, unfortunately.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#350

Post by kube-system »

nkrisc wrote: post #341
kube-system wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds annoying too. I want the default to be the one that does what I want it to do, clean a normal load of dishes, and do a good job at it. My dishwasher defaults to the last mode I set it to. > I find it absolutely crazy that a German company, when given free rein in the USA, would actually paywall Eco mode. It's just mind-boggling. ... they didn't do that. There is no paywall.

> ... they didn't do that. There is no paywall. Where I live internet access isn’t provided for free.

Where I live housing isn’t provided for free; are all dishwashers paywalled?

Y’all are doing acrobatics to twist the definition of a very common and clear word.

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