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How long til we're all on Ozempic?

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Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#341

Post by pugets »

arcticbull wrote: post #105
rootusrootus wrote: post #10

I'd think it more likely that it'll be one of the next generation drugs, but I do agree with the premise that it will be really common. A few weeks ago I started a low dose of tirzepatide (aka Mounjaro, aka Zepbound) and the side effects are interesting. The biggest negative, which just takes adjustment, is drastically lower stomach capacity. Used to be that two eggs and two pieces of toast was breakfast. Now I bette…

> "Just eat less and exercise more" is trite. If it were that easy, we'd all be in fantastic shape. Studies show it just doesn't work. There was a massive (18,000,000 people) cohort analysis published in 2023 that showed the likelihood of someone losing 5% of their body weight in any given year was 1 in 11 and the likelihood of going from severely obese to normal weight is 1 in 1667. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/…

It does work. It couldn't not work. Each day of your life, you choose to do one of three things:

1. Consume more calories than your body will need to function

2. Consume as many calories as your body will need to function

3. Consume fewer calories than your body will need to function

When you consume more energy than you require, your body stores the remainder as fat. When you consume less energy than is required, your body converts your fat into usable energy.

Now obviously, this is an over-simplified explanation of nutrition. What you eat, when you eat it, how efficiently your body converts food to energy, and other factors will determine the little details. But the explanation I've provided is not nearly as over-simplified as "it just doesn't work."

To make a comparison, it would be like suggesting that the financial advice "earn more money than you spend" just doesn't work as a method of saving money, on the grounds that some % of Americans who try to save money end up in credit card debt.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#342

Post by llamaimperative »

mlyle wrote: post #330
llamaimperative wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP isn't talking about self-control, they're talking about the fact we've created a system that requires obscene amounts of self-control if you wish to maintain physical health. People in the 50s weren't slimmer because they had ironclad determination to stay such.

> People in the 50s weren't slimmer because they had ironclad determination to stay such. No. They lived in an overall healthier environment. But they were also subject to much greater social pressure to stay slim and could endure fairly intense social judgment and stigmatization for weights that we consider normal (particularly women).

Then why are people scrambling for Ozempic? If it were true that "people think being fat is totally fine or desirable now" then this wouldn't be a blockbuster drug.

Weak thesis.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#343

Post by inglor_cz »

jodrellblank wrote: post #304
vundercind wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been studied pretty well. Possible effective solutions to the US obesity epidemic are pretty much limited to: 1) Radically alter aspects of food culture, work culture, social policy, and business regulation. 2) Magic pill (/injection) There appears to be no imminent progress on the many parts of #1 that need serious work, so if we want a big turn-around in the next half-century, #2 has suddenly and surprisingly…

From the article " Estimates suggest GLP-1s can reduce body weight by at least 15% when taken regularly ". That's a 5'10" man starting at 250lbs (obese, BMI > 35) and finishing at 220lbs (obese, BMI >30). Or a 5'10" man starting at 220lbs (obese) and finishing at 187lbs (overweight, BMI > 26). It ain't nothing, but that's not a magic pill which will fix the obesity epidemic. And these people have skipped changing the…

This is work in progress, though. 3rd generation medications are already way more efficient than 1st gen. Saxenda ever was. A further increase in efficiency is likely.

"And these people have skipped changing their lifestyle, exercise, diet, and attitudes around food."

That sounds very judgmental of you, like if they were skipping school. Bad truants!

What about "found the necessary changes too hard/complicated to sustain"? That is closer to reality. People juggle all sorts of obligations, some are doing multiple jobs, commuting 90 minutes each way etc. - they may be just too fatigued to exercise regularly and cook healthy meals at home.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#344

Post by cortesoft »

zarathustreal wrote: post #74
BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the negative consequence on the value of willpower is pretty obvious. "In what measure" is the real question.

Right, and the associated cultural impact of increasing hedonism

I am confused as to how a drug that makes you want to consume less would increase hedonism? It is basically an anti-hedonism drug?

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#345

Post by [deleted] »

Teever wrote: post #288
SapporoChris wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is impossible to live a healthy lifestyle and have healthy weight, if you ignore the 3/5ths of Americans that are not obese and the 7/8th of the global population.

Are the 3/5ths of Americans who are not obese actually living a healthy lifestyle? Or are they just living a different unhealthy lifestyle? Is a skinny homeless methhead with a great BMI healthy? Or the blue collar dude who has terrible blood pressure from chain smoking and pounding energy drinks on his way to the job site? How many Americans who are not obese are on their way to becoming obese? There are lots of pat…

[deleted]

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#346

Post by briandear »

llamaimperative wrote: post #280
dfxm12 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how this applies to my comment. I'm not saying anything about self control. I'm not against individuals taking GLP-1s. But, if we're at a point where we're all on drugs to treat lifestyle diseases, we should at least recognize that these lifestyles are largely chosen for us , and we should consider that doing something about that will reap us the benefits we're after.

Those benefits and a billion more! Better state of nature, richer social fabric, probably less political polarization if people were bumping into their neighbors more frequently instead of going from drywall box to steel box back to drywall box day in and day out.

Not having to bump into neighbors is a feature not a bug.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#347

Post by m_fayer »

valval wrote: post #318
gcr wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have good food, but you won't find it on "The Easy Path." The Easy Path is that gentle encouragement to hit up Chipotle for lunch, because it's "right there." The Easy Path says dinner's hard and you've had a long day, so get something simple, like take-out or microwave. The Easy Path is entropy. The Easy Path is self-care over struggle. The Easy Path is simple carbs shown on prominent display in store shelves. Th…

Get ground beef in the supermarket, it’s cheap and takes 7 minutes to cook. If that’s all you eat you can’t be fat and out of shape. You also won’t be hungry. At some point blaming society isn’t going to cut it.

I’ve done plenty of grinding it out in my life with no energy or time to spare.

Even in that place you can do better than ground beef.

Get an instant pot and invest in some rudimentary cooking skills. I’ve spent a whole year making variations on the same dish in 15 minutes, using that cooking as end-of-day stress relief. Shopping for the same handful of things once a week.

It wasn’t fine dining but it was healthy, cheap, and a few steps up from ground beef. Come now.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#348

Post by NotPractical »

vundercind wrote: post #265
dfxm12 wrote: post #170

Instead of a system that makes these drug available for purchase, I'd rather live in a system that promotes healthy food and active behavior. Unfortunately, I have to drive everywhere, work too many hours to have free time for recreation and have no idea which government subsidy is going to help big ag likely at the expense of my health. All things being equal, I'd prefer to spend less money on prescriptions and have…

It’s been studied pretty well. Possible effective solutions to the US obesity epidemic are pretty much limited to: 1) Radically alter aspects of food culture, work culture, social policy, and business regulation. 2) Magic pill (/injection) There appears to be no imminent progress on the many parts of #1 that need serious work, so if we want a big turn-around in the next half-century, #2 has suddenly and surprisingly…

But is it time to give up just because there hasn't been much progress yet? It seems now that we have #2 there's little incentive for #1, whereas there was plenty incentive for #1 before even if little action.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#349

Post by llamaimperative »

squidlogic wrote: post #337
llamaimperative wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP isn't talking about self-control, they're talking about the fact we've created a system that requires obscene amounts of self-control if you wish to maintain physical health. People in the 50s weren't slimmer because they had ironclad determination to stay such.

In my experience fitness is less about self control or will power and more about creating routines that lead to fitness. For example, I have a routine of going to a group fitness class at my gym in the morning. I don't need to summon willpower, I just have a morning routine that involves doing x thing at y time. No thought required. Given the abundance of options for fitness classes and meal plan services, you really…

Unfortunately we know that simply convincing people to change their behavior is very, very, very fucking hard. Individuals can and do pull it off, yes, but we're talking about a society level change that needs lots of people to succeed at this.

It is empirically and demonstrably ineffective as a solution.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#350

Post by yunwal »

valval wrote: post #318
gcr wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have good food, but you won't find it on "The Easy Path." The Easy Path is that gentle encouragement to hit up Chipotle for lunch, because it's "right there." The Easy Path says dinner's hard and you've had a long day, so get something simple, like take-out or microwave. The Easy Path is entropy. The Easy Path is self-care over struggle. The Easy Path is simple carbs shown on prominent display in store shelves. Th…

Get ground beef in the supermarket, it’s cheap and takes 7 minutes to cook. If that’s all you eat you can’t be fat and out of shape. You also won’t be hungry. At some point blaming society isn’t going to cut it.

> If that’s all you eat you can’t be fat and out of shape.

I promise you if ground beef is all you eat you will be much worse than fat and out of shape.

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