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How long til we're all on Ozempic?

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Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#71
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> big improvements for animal welfare Is it? It might reduce the amount of animals killed, sure, but it won't improve the well-being of the ones that are still raised.

This gets into a deep philosophical question people spend too much time arguing about. In short, some would argue suffering is multiplied by the number of sentient beings that experience it, others would argue only the average "amount" of suffering matters. You can end with some absurd paradoxes if you take either to their extremes. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

> The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

I think such paradoxes demonstrate we probably need a completely different approach than anything we've done so far.

Utilitarianism feels to me like Mill & Bentham discovered basic arithmetic and didn't even realise there was more to maths than that.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#72

I don’t want this to come out insensitive or from under the rock, but why is taking a drug a novel & cool idea (all of a sudden/recently) as opposed to good old fashioned working out and not eating more than what you need? okay, this drug is all kinds of great and it’s the next best thing since green grapes, still not eating more and workout is better than taking drugs that effect your brain right? Are doctors requir…

Because not everyone has willpower and discipline. People who do have those strengths often think it is just as simple as saying, "Just take care of yourself", but it is not that easy for many people. High blood sugar also increases cravings, which makes it even harder, bringing on a downward spiral. This drug can help break out of that spiral and fix the craving/willpower problems.

what you say is mostly true, but I will point out that it does not break any spiral. It’s frequently reported that as soon as you stop taking Ozempic, the weight comes back immediately. so unless one resolves the underlying problem, you will be on this drug for life.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#73
post #49
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> big improvements for animal welfare Is it? It might reduce the amount of animals killed, sure, but it won't improve the well-being of the ones that are still raised.

While this entire chain of thought seems a bit far fetched, I think the reasoning here is that if you lower the demand for meat, you don’t have to resort to factory farming.

I would hope this happens, but merely having fewer animals alive in factory farming conditions would be a welfare gain from me because I think a factory farmed animal's life falls below the "life is worth living" threshold. YMMV.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#74

My biggest fear is either there will be long term negative consequences to Ozempic et al, and a huge swath of the population will be dealing with issues 30 years form now - OR - there will be some long term positive consequence to using Ozempic et al, and I'm not getting any of the benefits because I'm not overweight.

Well, the negative consequence on the value of willpower is pretty obvious. "In what measure" is the real question.

Right, and the associated cultural impact of increasing hedonism

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#75

I don’t want this to come out insensitive or from under the rock, but why is taking a drug a novel & cool idea (all of a sudden/recently) as opposed to good old fashioned working out and not eating more than what you need? okay, this drug is all kinds of great and it’s the next best thing since green grapes, still not eating more and workout is better than taking drugs that effect your brain right? Are doctors requir…

I don't think I've ever seen someone seriously put forth the argument "all you need is Ozempic".

For context: I am an overweight type 2 diabetic. I lost about 70 lbs before my doctor started me on Mounjaro (another GLP-1 agonist). My diet and exercise routine were far from perfect, and it took me about a year to lose that weight. My doctor started me on Mounjaro, both for type 2 diabetes and weight loss. I have lost 20 lbs in about a month on it, which means I will lose three times the weight if that pace keeps up (very unlikely). When my doctor and I discussed starting Mounjaro (which the doctor suggested, not me) he made it very, VERY clear that diet and exercise were important things to work on as the weight came off.

The key there is that the pace of weight loss will not keep up as the body's caloric needs reduce due to that weight loss. So naturally a GLP-1 user will plateau if they do not adjust their diet (and potentially exercise routine, though diet is much more important) as the weight comes off. You know what really makes it easier to have the energy to a healthy meal, to work out, and to take care of yourself? Losing weight! You know what helps form those healthy habits in people who did not form them during childhood? Reduced cravings for calorie dense food! Both of those things are where Ozempic and other GLP-1 drugs shine. It gives the person on them the space to make those changes without cravings, without feeling hungry, and at a faster pace than they could do naturally.

So yes, in the short term, these drugs are a great catalyst for change, but I don't see many medical professionals saying "oh just stick someone on Ozempic for life and that's that!" because for the vast majority of people who would use those drugs for weight loss cannot achieve their goals with just the drug alone.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#76
post #67

I'd think it more likely that it'll be one of the next generation drugs, but I do agree with the premise that it will be really common. A few weeks ago I started a low dose of tirzepatide (aka Mounjaro, aka Zepbound) and the side effects are interesting. The biggest negative, which just takes adjustment, is drastically lower stomach capacity. Used to be that two eggs and two pieces of toast was breakfast. Now I bette…

> Man, the garage is going to be clean and superbly organized in a few weeks.' Manic behaviors also associated with older, popular diet drugs like meth.

It's not the manic behavior, but the opposite. GLP-1 agonists appear to reduce the impulsive behavior.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#77
you can buy tirzepatide / semaglutide all day long from labs in china for between $4 per injection all the way down to $0.50 per injection depending on quantity and type (prepackaged in vial vs raw powder)

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#78
post #70
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were several side effects related to pancreatic cancer associated with the precursors to GLP-1 drugs. The same companies promoting GLP-1s were responsible for driving up insulin prices. So I'm hedging my bets. There's a really cool Modern MBA video [1] on this topic btw :) [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUoZVke_30

> There were several side effects related to pancreatic cancer In mice.

Did the drug help pancreatic cancer?

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#79
post #70
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were several side effects related to pancreatic cancer associated with the precursors to GLP-1 drugs. The same companies promoting GLP-1s were responsible for driving up insulin prices. So I'm hedging my bets. There's a really cool Modern MBA video [1] on this topic btw :) [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sUoZVke_30

> There were several side effects related to pancreatic cancer In mice.

If something causes cancer in mice, the curent consensus is that it is deemed unsafe for humans.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#80

I don’t want this to come out insensitive or from under the rock, but why is taking a drug a novel & cool idea (all of a sudden/recently) as opposed to good old fashioned working out and not eating more than what you need? okay, this drug is all kinds of great and it’s the next best thing since green grapes, still not eating more and workout is better than taking drugs that effect your brain right? Are doctors requir…

Because not everyone has willpower and discipline. People who do have those strengths often think it is just as simple as saying, "Just take care of yourself", but it is not that easy for many people. High blood sugar also increases cravings, which makes it even harder, bringing on a downward spiral. This drug can help break out of that spiral and fix the craving/willpower problems.

> Break out from the spiral

I see the point in this, but do you think it’s marketed as such and perhaps better question, used for exactly that and not more by vulnerable patients etc? (not well informed about long term side effects, some might even be unknown, if I might add)

I take my vaccines and generally gravitate to sanity over conspiracy stuff (that is to say, If I sound like that, i’m not)

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