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The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

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Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#341

Post by Someone »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #248
Someone wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, there is nothing that prevents the likes of HP, Acer, Dell and Samsung to do the same. All of them could have the economics of scale Apple enjoys, but they choose to have a more diverse product line instead. Your argument would carry more weight if Apple had a much larger chunk of the market than all others.

I don't buy it. The traditional cycle, if Apple had a new technology first, is Apple releases it, wait a year and everybody else can do it just as well and probably cheaper. You can get Android handsets whose specs are better than the iPhone 4 in every way except the screen. If a manufacturer could out do the iPhone 4, iPad or MBP screen, they would have. Especially since they are traditionally spec driven.

"If a manufacturer could out do the iPhone 4, iPad or MBP screen, they would have. Especially since they are traditionally spec driven."

I think a major reason other manufacturers haven't done this may be that they ship Windows boxes. My logic for that is as follows:

- There are manufacturers that ship numbers of their high-end laptops that are in the same order as the number of MacBook Pro's that Apple ships.

- Apple, by supplying only one form factor, reaps economies of scale.

- That form factor may be suboptimal for some, but it is what they will have to buy if they want to run Mac OS.

- If other manufacturers tried the same, they would lose sales to other parties that do provide machines with different feature sets that also run Windows.

On the other hand, I do not know whether it is that more expensive to have a single high-DPI line crank out multiple sizes of display. If it is not, it all boils down to balls. Other manufacturers may be spec driven, but they do that by buying the best the market has to offer. Apple, on the other hand, is willing (and able) to tell the market what it wants, and put money on the table up-front for it.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#342

Post by josteink »

spiralpolitik wrote: post #325
josteink wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching to all USB was a natural consequence of all new gadgets and equipment coming with a USB connector, not a innovation by Apple. And ditching the floppy was actually something you could not do on a Windows-machine until quite recently. I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but until Windows Vista, if you wanted to install Windows on a machine which had IO controllers or other hardware it did not recogn…

USB prior to the iMac was moribund. Very few devices, half the motherboards didn't ship with drivers for the ports. While everybody was talking about how great USB was and how it would replace all the other ports, none of the PC manufacturers took it seriously until Apple shipped the iMac. Same could be said with Bluetooth. Lot's of talk about how great it was/would be, but none of the PC manufacturers really did any…

So you are saying that USB in general wasn't taking of until around the the time of the iMac. That does not make it the iMac which drove this development.

Bluetooth, at least in my opinion, has severely limited use. Most my devices has it, has had it (apart from desktops) and on all of them I turn it off. It is a relic from ancient times.

Ditto with wifi? Seriously? No really? You are going to pick widely available products and just claim that some iProduct popularized it?

You're obviously seeing the world through Apple-coloured glasses and are unable to see general technological progress as just that.

And like I said in the original post: lets ignore laptops, because those are not what we are discussing. Someone wanted to know what Apple would do with desktop system since evidently the entire PC industry will copy that in 2-3 years.

I'm still waiting for a single example from you which holds valid. None have been provided so far. Only fanboy-cheering.

As for the PC business in general and all that innovation you claim that I say is happening there... My point is that there isn't. It's a very standstill market. There has been little to no innovation the last decade, except making things cheaper, more efficient, smaller, lighter and prettier.

You know... The general trends for all things technology. It's just evolving. And here you credit all that general evolving to one company without any proof what so ever.

I don't buy it fanboy.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#343

Post by tehayj »

abalashov wrote: post #327
MartinCron wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a Dell laptop every day. I really enjoy it. Competent and well-built machine. Good value, all that. If I put it next to my wife's MacBook Pro, well, the only word for it is "clunky". Put a reasonably handsome man next to George Clooney and he'll look clunky, too.

I just got a new Asus 13" laptop and personally find it to kick the crap out of a MacBook aesthetically, even when viewed side-by-side. :-) Of course, they have also made it somewhat shamelessly MacBook like in certain respects: large touchpad, calculator-style keyboard...

Same here those Asus are way nicer imo.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#344

Post by flatline3 »

Udo wrote: post #298
flatline3 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will you replace it with? That's my problem -- I require Mac OS X.

I don't know, I figure my machines still have 2-3 years of useful life left in them. A lot can happen in this time. But I'm probably not going back to Linux (where I came from). Honestly, Windows doesn't looks so bad anymore. I admit I don't know the first thing about it, but maybe I'll give it a try.

I've been using Windows 7 on and off. It's largely OK, but not great. Cygwin is awful, the open-source community is nascent (at best!), the development tools are a OK, but semi-free (VS Studio Express is free, but if you need more, Visual Studio is expensive).

Integration with tools like git and svn are only through 3rd party solutions, and aren't as polished as one would like.

I could get by with it, but I would prefer not to. However, I'm also not particularly happy with the idea of going back to Linux, and my work still requires a Mac. Thus, stuck on Mac OS X.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#345

Post by jpxxx »

jonah wrote: post #295
ctdonath wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on very little information and lots of intuition reaching conclusions shared by others... Most "refurb" units are just bought-and-returned products. There's nothing wrong with them. If there is something wrong, it was a problem with a new unit (either broken at purchase or soon thereafter), someone bought it assuming "new" better than "refurb" and got a lemon; the problem is easily identified and replaced with…

This general idea - that refurbs are more thoroughly tested and therefore more reliable - has been confirmed to me by Apple staff. My guess is that it's primarily the likelihood of failure soon after purchase which is greatly decreased.

Let's put this to bed. Returns and refurbs alike are binned into lots of, say, 50 units. Third party repair companies bid on them. The winner takes possession, runs triage according to apple protocols and apple diagnostic tools, performs any needed repairs out of pocket, and then places them up for sale linking in to Apple's web store. The products may also be sold in-store.

Any purchase of a refurb is fulfilled from the repair shop with generic packaging. Warranties are reset to day 0. The end.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#346

Post by jpxxx »

jpxxx wrote: post #345
jonah wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This general idea - that refurbs are more thoroughly tested and therefore more reliable - has been confirmed to me by Apple staff. My guess is that it's primarily the likelihood of failure soon after purchase which is greatly decreased.

Let's put this to bed. Returns and refurbs alike are binned into lots of, say, 50 units. Third party repair companies bid on them. The winner takes possession, runs triage according to apple protocols and apple diagnostic tools, performs any needed repairs out of pocket, and then places them up for sale linking in to Apple's web store. The products may also be sold in-store. Any purchase of a refurb is fulfilled from…

Oh, and scuzzy remanufacturing shops will sell the truly fucked unrepairable gear in-store and try to pass it off as new. Get caught and Apple will annihilate you.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#347

Post by bnegreve »

Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #151
bnegreve wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also because the power consumption is quadratic with the frequency. This is important if you agree that an additional hour on battery is worth much more than few cylces per sec.

No, the first-order model is that power consumption is quadratic with voltage, and linear with frequency .

Ok, but isn’t increasing the voltage required to keep the transistors stable as you increase the frequency ?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#348

Post by lsc »

archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

>There was a comment (I think here) yesterday that said, effectively, "Upgradability was a defect of technology not being 'good enough' for long periods".

eh I think that comment is missing the real lifecycle of tech. First, it goes to the mac users. People that are willing to pay a large premium for something super stylish that they don't have to screw with. These people don't want to upgrade; that defeats the whole point of paying extra so they don't have to screw with it.

Two to three years down the road, the hardware gets discarded by the 'my bicycle has no flywheel' set and ends up with one of my people. At that point, it matters that we can't upgrade the ram or the disk, as there are going to be dramatically better parts at that point.

Of course, apple doesn't care; I mean, I'm sure apple bears us no ill-will, but apple has no reason to go out of their way to make our lives easier. We're not going to spend that kind of scratch on a laptop.

You see the same thing with electric and hybrid vehicles; Their batteries are out of warranty and will be completely useless around the time that they drop into the price range where I'd consider buying them; and a new battery pack kicks them out of my price range again. But why would Tesla or Toyota care? I'm not going to buy a new car from them.

(of course, like I said, manufacturers of high-end new stuff have no reason to care about 'my people' - so eh, from the manufacturer's standpoint, you are correct, but there is a whole ecosystem of scavengers that will be disappointed by this trend.)

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#349

Post by Ralith »

ericd wrote: post #297
Ralith wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends how you define meaningful. It obviously required more resources than simply using standard parts and tools, so there must be some payoff.

I'm guessing that every piece of their kit and manufacturing capacity is custom made to order. The difference between making their custom screws use one shape of head vs. another is probably negligible in terms of cost to them.

Yes, you said that already, and even though you haven't provided a shred of evidence I'll let it go, because even then there still must be a payoff for them to do it. Someone went to the engineers and said "Do this differently," and they didn't do it for laughs.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#350

Post by ericd »

Ralith wrote: post #349
ericd wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that every piece of their kit and manufacturing capacity is custom made to order. The difference between making their custom screws use one shape of head vs. another is probably negligible in terms of cost to them.

Yes, you said that already, and even though you haven't provided a shred of evidence I'll let it go, because even then there still must be a payoff for them to do it. Someone went to the engineers and said "Do this differently," and they didn't do it for laughs.

I was making my implications explicit. I'm saying that your original thesis that manufacturing cost was a significant deterrent to doing it differently was wrong, because they're never going to use regular screws, they're going to make them custom to fit the case, so making them with a different head is not an issue of manufacturing cost at all. But sure, there must be some reasoning behind their decision, most things they do are deliberate. If there's nothing user-serviceable, then they probably save money from people trying to open their computers up, screwing them up, and then trying to pass off the problems as manufacturing defects. I don't see anything nefarious in that - their user upgradeable computers are really pleasant to get into.
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