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Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

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Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#341

Post by robertlagrant »

prions wrote: post #238
robertlagrant wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain your point?

Mopeds can only operate on streets, they cant go in bikelanes or sidewalks. They are subject to the same restrictions as cars (licensure, registration) except that they uniquely have a speed limit Not having a speed limit is unique only to private car ownership

No, you've got it backwards. NYC categorises mopeds by top speed, where class A don't have a speed limit.

As a secondary issue, you're claiming an NYC rule (that you've misconstrued) is evidence of pro-car rules worldwide, and also you're omitting motorbikes (and class A mopeds) even in NYC.

The NYC classification allow relaxations of rules for class B and C mopeds. No helmet required for class C. No inspections required for B or C. These are pro-moped rules. It seem really unobjective to see them as evidence of pro-car thinking.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#342

Post by beaeglebeachedd »

Symbiote wrote: post #339
ars wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slight speed increase that ordinary people do does not kill people. We aren't talking about people going freeway speed in a residential area.

The "normal" speeding in residential areas absolutely does increase the chance of death and injury in a collision with a pedestrian or cyclist. K = m v² That energy increases with the square of the speed, and has to go somewhere (person's body) in a collision.

It reduces the amount of time you are in the residential area meaning there is less opportunity to even contact a pedestrian or cyclist. At the extreme in some areas if you could go the speed of light you could essentially pick a time when no pedestrian could even possibly enter the road while you are on it.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#343

Post by mr_mitm »

luplex wrote: post #86
mr_mitm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will finally stop the Swiss from speeding in Germany

I mean no, because there's (as of July 2024) no speed limit on the Autobahn.

Sorry, my comment was meant to be below another reply. Not sure what happened but now it doesn't make sense.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#344

Post by sliken »

adrianN wrote: post #334
sliken wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But now you have to spend more money on adding lanes for the same traffic capacity because the average speed drops.

Road capacity usually increases as speed goes down.

Cars per mile, yes. Cars per second no. If you follow the recommended 3 second spacing then it's a car per 3 seconds per lane.

So for a fixed distance, the slower you go, the longer you are on the road, the more road capacity you consume.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#345

Post by akira2501 »

CalRobert wrote: post #329
akira2501 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hopefully this saves many lives. That's very unlikely. More than half of roadway fatalities in the USA involve drugs or alcohol. You'd have much better luck putting a brethalyzer ignition interlock on all vehicles. One minute of thinking should make it obvious how easily that would be defeated as well.

This is not in the USA. Also, I'm particularly interested in the effects on pedestrian and cyclist deaths, and it should be large. The relationship between speed and severe injury is nonlinear. https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-seve... Results show that the average risk of severe injury for a pedestrian struck by a vehicle reaches 10% at an impact speed of 16 mph, 25% at 23 mph, 50% at 31 mph, 7…

Yes but "vehicle was speeding" is often _not_ the mode in which pedestrians are killed. Pedestrians walk on the shoulders of poorly lit roadways where the speed limits are greater than 35. This is a recipe for disaster and it is a very common mode for pedestrian deaths, up to 30% on some years, the drivers did nothing wrong in these cases.

The other is bad roadway design. I searched FARS once for all accidents where the pedestrian was killed _after_ a vehicle had become airborne in one way or another (e.g. Left The Roadway).

There were more than 100 when I ran the search, one memorable one was, a vehicle was driving on a roadway in winter which had a descending hill next to it, the vehicle hit the brakes to avoid an accident, lost control, went down the hill, rolling several times, and in the process killed a pedestrian and his poor dog, before finally tumbling into the lower road and landing upside down on another vehicle.

So. Pedestrians have zero safety margin out there. Even maximum enforcement of speed limits will have almost no impact on this. Unless you also want to make 10mph the maximum speed limit inside a city.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#346

Post by akira2501 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #326
akira2501 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then the speed limit is set to 55MPH The speed limit is set to 55MPH because the road services vehicles that weigh 600lbs all the way up to 80,000lbs. "Safe speed" is not a single universal number for a given stretch of road. The laws even acknowledge this, as if the weather is extremely unfavorable, you can be pulled over for driving _at_ the speed limit as it will be declared "unsafe speed under given conditions.…

> because the road services vehicles that weigh 600lbs all the way up to 80,000lbs The laws recognize that those vehicles are different. Where I live those vehicles are only allowed to drive in the right two lanes. There's already a federal push to have speed limiters in vehicles like that and it is getting a lot of pushback: https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fmcsa-delays-speed-limiter... Again, That's why I said it'…

> Where I live those vehicles are only allowed to drive in the right two lanes.

Motorcycles can't use the left lane?

> There's already a federal push to have speed limiters in vehicles like that and it is getting a lot of pushback

A 26,000lb vehicle, going down a 5% grade, with brake failure, goes whatever speed it pleases.

> discussion about the general public's tolerance for risk

The general public, famously, does not have the skill set needed to make correct measurements here. The discussion can only be on that is manipulated.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#347

Post by CalRobert »

akira2501 wrote: post #345
CalRobert wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not in the USA. Also, I'm particularly interested in the effects on pedestrian and cyclist deaths, and it should be large. The relationship between speed and severe injury is nonlinear. https://aaafoundation.org/impact-speed-pedestrians-risk-seve... Results show that the average risk of severe injury for a pedestrian struck by a vehicle reaches 10% at an impact speed of 16 mph, 25% at 23 mph, 50% at 31 mph, 7…

Yes but "vehicle was speeding" is often _not_ the mode in which pedestrians are killed. Pedestrians walk on the shoulders of poorly lit roadways where the speed limits are greater than 35. This is a recipe for disaster and it is a very common mode for pedestrian deaths, up to 30% on some years, the drivers did nothing wrong in these cases. The other is bad roadway design. I searched FARS once for all accidents where…

I just shared a source illustrating how lower speeds dramatically affect outcomes for pedestrians (never mind that braking distance is way shorter for lower speeds) and you respond with a straw man about rural road shoulders?

Incidentally I tend to favor 30kph for urban cores, which is 18mph, so you’re not far off. Amsterdam recently made this change and it’s nice, but enforcement is so-so. I’m glad to see this come online in addition to enforcement. My six year old who bikes to school is too.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#348

Post by gambiting »

CalRobert wrote: post #328
gambiting wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't limit the speed of ebikes - we limit the point at which the electric motor cuts off, but there's nothing stopping you from just pedalling faster.

Isn't stopping the powered propulsion the same mechanism? I suppose you are free to put pedals on your car as well if you like.

A bicycle(ebike) can be reasonably and with not too much effort accelerated manually past the speed limit(at least here in Uk/EU with the 15.5mph limiter) and in fact I'd say it's a very common occurance. The same cannot be said about any car, even if technically it's true that if you had some other source of prepulsion the car could go above its own speed limiter.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#349

Post by nedt »

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

"[...] cause an average of 2 accidents per month if [...] people [...] weren't paying attention"

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#350

Post by nedt »

gambiting wrote: post #9

This is one example of legislation that mandates fantasy tech that doesn't exist. You'd think that something as simple as speed limiter should be very easy to implement, and it couldn't be further from the truth - watch any review of a car with this tech and every reviewer will complain that it's not the presence of the system that's the problem, it's the fact that it constantly gets the speed limit wrong. Either rea…

It was exactly the same when incandescent light bulbs were banned. The alternatives weren't as good and almost no improvements were made. After the ban it took like 5-10 years, but suddenly there was progress. By now even halogen lamps are gone, because LED became so much better.

And in the end it's not the fault of the legislation. If it wouldn't be so common to go above the limit there wouldn't have been any need to a beeping device. Just look at those idiots still arguing about their tachometer being 10% off, always, and therefore thinking it's fine to always go 5-10 km/h above the limit, never below.

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