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Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

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Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#341

Post by Sylamore »

Gigachad wrote: post #327
babyshake wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bullpens that are full of distracting off-topic conversation that makes it hard to concentrate, but apparently is some type of secret sauce of what makes for a productive office environment compared to being able to focus in the peace and quiet of our homes or work environment of our choice.

You can just put noise canceling headphones on and completely turn off the distractions when you need periods of focus.

I worked in an office bullpen type environment briefly with everything director and below being required to sit in the bullpen, and they were so proud of the set up till the nearly universal complaints of all the noise from everyone on the phone and all of the privacy offices being in constant use with nobody using the reservation tool to book them and they added white noise machines in the ceiling. Well that kind of helped with the cacophony of conversations a bit, but lead to just high noise floor so everyone just talked louder. At least with the white noise machine the noise cancelling headphones were a little more effective, but it still doesn't stop people from tapping you on the shoulder while you are trying to focus.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#342

Post by Teckla »

smsm42 wrote: post #313
taurath wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just disagreeing and committing is the new “just following orders”

"just following orders" implies doing something inherently immoral, but refusing to take responsibility and laying it on higher authority. Nothing like that is happening here. RTO is not inherently immoral - while I prefer remote work, it's a valid choice for management to have different preference for their teams. The team members can either agree with that or move to another team or employment - neither choice is m…

Nothing like that is happening here. RTO is not inherently immoral

Commuting to/from an office (releasing a lot of CO2 and pollution) when remote work is an option can easily be considered immoral these days.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#343

Post by buzzert »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #339
lr1970 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a just world, be a Socialist. Read Marx for real. And join the rest of the historically frustrated who will die watching humanity flagellate itself. If there's hope, it's in the proles. Socialism and Marxism were tried in 20-th century several times -- Russia, China, "Socialist Block" of East European countries under Soviet control, Cuba, etc. Somehow every attempt at creating a decent non-capitalist so…

In contrast to "Socialism" (Big S), democratic socialism seems to be possible and provides evidence of effectiveness, with the Nordic Model being the reference example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

> a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining based on the economic foundations of social corporatism, and a commitment to private ownership within a market-based mixed economy.

What part of this sounds like Socialism, exactly?

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#344

Post by horns4lyfe »

innagadadavida wrote: post #212
lapcat wrote: post #121

Jassy said the quiet part out loud and admitted what I've always suspected, that most CEOs don't have original thoughts, instead governing by groupthink: > Other company CEOs helped Jassy make up his mind too. Jassy spoke to "60 to 80 CEOs of other companies over the last 18 months," and "virtually all of them" preferred in-office work, he said. I bet that none of those individual CEOs could empirically prove that re…

Not a fan of executives or management but there literally are two groups - RTO and non-RTO. Employees largely prefer one option and management the other. So effectively you have two group-thinks going on. Are you saying management should change their stance or are there other non-group think options here?

Yes management should change their stance. Workers make the thing go, managers are just an offshoot.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#345

Post by myroon5 »

reducesuffering wrote: post #317
rchaud wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that a nobody like myself has "real estate" in his portfolio, I have no doubt that people at Jassy's level have stakes in all kinds of businesses that will benefit from RTO. Commercial RE is just one of them. They could have Airbnb/rental properties, restaurants, franchise fast food, private car services.

Jassy has ~$100 million / year compensation for doing his job. He is outvoted by >99% of the companies shareholders. Jassy doing anything not in the best interest of shareholders will get him fired. He does not care about random properties that are peanuts compared to his compensation and status as CEO of Amazon.

Jassy's reported ~$200M CEO compensation package is spread over a decade (not annual), and Jassy has significant Seattle investments, including a stake in Seattle's new NHL team and a ~$7M house

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#346

Post by a_ml »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #58
bhickey wrote: post #10

He's going to get a very sudden lesson on adverse selection.

Amazon is a human mill. It grinds through people at a startling rate and they frequently lose good people for stupid reasons. They generally look at people as fungible cogs, and all the leveling, top grading, and OLR processes reflect that. I think they (rightly) think they can absorb any losses and replace them with people willing to relocate and come in.

[dead]

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#347

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

000ooo000 wrote: post #50
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #29

Isn’t there anyone that can steelman the WFH situation? Twitter, Amazon, Zoom, others are all ending or limiting their WFH programs. Doesn’t that tell anyone that there MIGHT be facts or at least good research on this that it isn’t producing good work for the money? I get that “corporations are bad maaaan” and all the good people are dreamy socialists… but what if you are wrong and it isn’t more effective?

I guess you could look at the profit/revenue of these companies over the last few years during the WFH experiment, apply some slight multiplier for "this is our first go at WFH at scale and we haven't really committed to it, either", and draw a conclusion based on that. AFAIK, many companies did pretty well during the WFH experiment, and maybe in some cases, they overhired and now this is a convenient lever to pull o…

Thanks. Of all the “highly intellectual” people here, you were one of the only to partially attempt a steelman.

You know how I know that WFH side isn’t saying using the whole truth? They never look bad.

No one ever says “I’m definitely only working half time, but they’re getting enough work from me so it’s fine” or “I’m being paid more and work less, they’re so clueless they have no idea”, or ”I know a lot of people are scamming but I’m not”.

So while everyone is making the argument that corporate sucks and is out of touch, they’re simultaneously saying they’re angels who would never take advantage.

It’s BS, and everyone on both side knows it.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#348

Post by rr808 »

oldoracle wrote: post #25

Hilarious to me Oracle has no issue with remote work while Apple, Amazon, Google, all flip out Deals they cut, whether it’s leases or tax breaks, are not my responsibility. Aside from Apple, the only thing the anti-remote places have is brand recognition. The knowledge they possess is worker knowledge. They’re having a hard time justifying valuations since their real social value is corralling workers who are then to…

To be fair Oracle is a ** company relying on a 50 year old monopoly product. Apple Amazon and Google are a different league.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#349

Post by rr808 »

softwaredoug wrote: post #177

Given recent Big Tech behavior -- ie Amazon hiring based on work flexibility , then laying people off, then switching to RTO, who would trust these companies enough to move across the country for a role? In my (40 yo+) peer group people have largely settled down somewhere not near a home office during the pandemic. People have the entire cost structure of home ownership, day care, and commuting built around not needi…

> In my (40 yo+) peer group people have largely settled down somewhere not near a home office during the pandemic. People have the entire cost structure of home ownership, day care, and commuting built around not needing to be in a major metro going into an office.

I find it pretty hard to believe that in a 2 year period during a pandemic families can all move, then are unable to move back again.

Perfectly normal that they prefer a quieter location, but I expect eventually we'll move to a framework where there will be a big pay difference between those in the office vs remote due to supply and demand.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#350

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

Shekelphile wrote: post #52
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #29

Isn’t there anyone that can steelman the WFH situation? Twitter, Amazon, Zoom, others are all ending or limiting their WFH programs. Doesn’t that tell anyone that there MIGHT be facts or at least good research on this that it isn’t producing good work for the money? I get that “corporations are bad maaaan” and all the good people are dreamy socialists… but what if you are wrong and it isn’t more effective?

> Doesn’t that tell anyone that there MIGHT be facts or at least good research on this that it isn’t producing good work for the money? I'd wager that most people are just as productive or more productive when WFH, but there will always be unethical people who will abuse the privilege when given the chance. There are tons of anecdotes of people just being straight up lazy, defeating naive monitoring solutions with mo…

I have seen about zero WFH people acknowledge the abuses. That’s how I know not take any of the argument too seriously.

When I see someone write “but I love working half time and they have no idea but it all works out” then I’ll pay attention.

Or if even accept at least “I know a lot of people are abusing it”.

Instead it’s all “I’m such an honest worker”.

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