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Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

dontasktoask.com

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Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#341

Post by _8j50 »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #238
_8j50 wrote: post #228

I completley disagree with this. It depends on the person you are talking to. If this is a support chat or you are dealing with someone who is only there to take questions then yes... just state your question. In every other scenario, when someone says hello, greet them back. Exchange small talk if you must. That is just basic human pleasentries which for some reason is not allowed when you're using a keyboard? It's…

no because an in person convo doesn't have a 2-10minute delay of complete silence between the hello and what they are asking for. example just from yesterday: them 10:10am Hello me 10:10am hey what's up them 10:20am hey do you remember me? I used to work with so and so me 10:20am yeah I can help you with any questions now them 10:45am nvm I figured it out by reading the error message. I'm not full time support, I'm a…

Does your chat client not have a do not disturb mode? That's why i said have a chatroom for support.

It's not just devs that use computers. This is how any office worker or random discord community talk. You can also ignore the interruption.

I use to think like you until I jumped to security where people sometimes avoid responding when you bring up a task they need to implement (like patching something). I just drop a Hi and wait for them to respond then drop the question on them so they are forced to respond.

Sometimes I would have a technical matter to ask about and there are multiple people to ask. I am not copy pasting the same question and having 5 people waste time answering. I will drop a Hi and ask the first person who responds.

You do not have to drop everything and reply to every Hello or Hi. You are free to ignore until a more pertinent question is dropped because the person may also be asking others who may be free.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#342

Post by Pooge »

cogman10 wrote: post #296
Pooge wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you just run up to people and ask them a question in person, or do some kind of greeting first? The problem is not whether you're greeting or not. Nobody complained about having a greeting in their messages. The problem is that chats are very asynchronous; by the time I read your message you could've solved it already. There is absolutely nothing wrong in writing "Hey, I need help with . I already tried and . If…

I'd take it one step further. If the opening message doesn't have enough information for an immediate action to be taken, it doesn't have enough information. A message "Hey, I need help with x" is just as frustrating as "Hello" because it results in the same back and forth. "What problem are you having with x?" "Well, I want to do y" "Why are you doing y?" "Well, for z purpose". Your chats should be of the form "Hey,…

> If the opening message doesn't have enough information for an immediate action to be taken, it doesn't have enough information.

Indeed, this is what I wanted to convey in the pseudo-conversation in my previous comment.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#343

Post by _8j50 »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #254
_8j50 wrote: post #228

I completley disagree with this. It depends on the person you are talking to. If this is a support chat or you are dealing with someone who is only there to take questions then yes... just state your question. In every other scenario, when someone says hello, greet them back. Exchange small talk if you must. That is just basic human pleasentries which for some reason is not allowed when you're using a keyboard? It's…

You should be strict in what you send and generous in what you accept. If someone says hello then of course say hello back. But when saying hello to someone else, include your content in the same message.

I can accept this with the contingency that you should make effort to understand others' perspective and workflow which could be very different from yours.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#344

Post by _8j50 »

standardUser wrote: post #257
_8j50 wrote: post #228

I completley disagree with this. It depends on the person you are talking to. If this is a support chat or you are dealing with someone who is only there to take questions then yes... just state your question. In every other scenario, when someone says hello, greet them back. Exchange small talk if you must. That is just basic human pleasentries which for some reason is not allowed when you're using a keyboard? It's…

Yes, we should skip basic human pleasantries when using a keyboard. There's plenty of time for those on voice and video chat.

Why? I mean on voice and video pleasantries force you to waste time. On chat you can delay your response and prioritize more important things. If anyone suffers from pleasantries it is the person who started it because they're delaying their own answer.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#345

Post by VBprogrammer »

sneak wrote: post #269
VBprogrammer wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". Try, "Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 . Would you have a minute to discuss this?"

That also isn't a good opener. Discuss what specifically about it? It's still waiting for a contentless "yes"/"sure". Just begin the discussion. I think a lot of people do this because they are bad/slow at typing and don't want to bother leveling up.

How would you do it differently? For someone I worked with closely, sure, I'd just paste the ticket ID and start talking to them about it.

When I have to talk to someone whom I don't have an existing relationship with and maybe only have a tenuous recommendation to talk to them about an issue I think it's a reasonable place to start. They might actually not know about the thing I'm asking about and have a better idea of who to speak to.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#346

Post by [deleted] »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #128

I don’t think people do this because they want to be polite. The ‘hello’ is basically the start of what is the human equivalent of the TCP three way handshake. - Hello (SYN) > Hi (ACK) - How are you doing ? (SYN, ACK) Basically, they are trying to set up a synchronous channel over what is essentially an asynchronous medium. This is even more annoying than just slowing down the answer, they are demanding your undivide…

[deleted]

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#347

Post by Smaug123 »

robbrown451 wrote: post #146

I often will say "you there?" or "you busy?" This means I don't have a single question, it means I want to have a synchronous conversation. There are lots of reasons for the latter. This is what I would prefer people do with me as well, and if I am busy, I feel like I can ignore the message until I have a few minutes to talk (often with voice/phone) I say this as someone working from home, thousands of miles from mos…

If you just want a synchronous conversation per se, ask a #social channel if anyone's around for a real-time chat. If you want to have a specific synchronous conversation with someone (one-off or regularly), schedule it; this is what calendars are for!

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#348

Post by Smaug123 »

notyourwork wrote: post #226

People are so grumpy. If you don't want notifications turn them off. If I approach you in person I don't say hi and spill out a paragraph. So saying hello to start a conversation is a low friction way to have a conversation in the same we humans do in real life. edit: Are people really so unfriendly and impersonable that a simple hello is considered offensive? For the same reason I disable most mobile apps notificati…

I'm regularly on a support rota as first-line triage for things which have just started going wrong. I need to be interrupted for important things, but I would strongly prefer not to be interrupted for unimportant things, because undivided attention is very scarce on such a rota; doubling the number of messages while we perform the SYN-ACK dance doubles the number of interruptions. Setting my status to "does not receive notifications" forces everyone to read my personal how-to-interact-with-me user manual to discover whether I'm temporarily muted for some good reason, whether I just happen to be away from my desk and would prefer not to be interrupted but can easily come back if required, or whether I'm muted on general principles.

> If I approach you in person, I don't say hi and spill out a paragraph.

I don't know how you interact with shopkeepers or other such people who are there to help you, but I certainly do precisely that; I would consider it rather odd to start such a conversation with a "hi" that waits for a response. Surely, surely, the natural thing to say is "Hi, I'm looking for these shoes in size 10", rather than "Hi". Surely?

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#349

Post by forbiddenvoid »

Pooge wrote: post #147
Pxtl wrote: post #121

In terms of IM etiquette this feels so far down the list of my complaints, way behind "stop sending me screenshots to things that are available live on URLs or UNC shares". Or like "it would be literally less work for you to copy/paste the hyperlink to the ticket than it was for you to type in the ticket ID manually".

Yes! I'm with you there. I didn't see it much in IM services, but Reddit is a pro in terms of "Let me post the screenshot of the Tweet instead of linking to it".

Twitter itself is a pro at this. So many times someone just posts a screenshot of a tweet instead of, you know, sub-retweet or replying to the tweet itself.

Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)

#350

Post by Smaug123 »

blablabla123 wrote: post #8

True words for 1:n communication. For 1:1 communication it's a different thing though. I really prefer people to warn me before dropping a bomb

Use the asynchronous channel to set up a synchronous channel over a medium that's actually designed for it, then!
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