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How bad is my gas stove?

carbonswitch.co

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Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#341

Post by rootusrootus »

smileysteve wrote: post #264
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical American wall sockets rarely deliver more than 120V * 15A. Plug in induction hobs targeting the American market clock in at 1800 W spread across all burners, at most. There are no four burner solutions for which this power is sufficient.

If wired for an electric resistance range and oven, the typical American home has 240x30+

This is true, but a lot of newer homes have a cooktop and separate oven, rather than a drop-in or slide-in range as used to be popular. This is nice because the oven is at a better height (and it's pretty convenient to have a double oven), but the consequence is that gas cooktops are almost never wired for 240V. If the cooktop is on it's own circuit then the upgrade can be done without rewiring, but I don't imagine that's a very common arrangement, it's probably shared with a few outlets, or microwave, etc.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#342

Post by maccard »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #235
maccard wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should absolutely not be subsodisong someone who has the means to install a $3000 induction range and do $2k worth of additional work at the same time. A semi decent 4 ring induction cooktop can be had for less than £300, and it plugs straight into a wall socket with no electrical work needed. If you're removing a gas stove and making the point safe, I'd say $100 to cap the pipe at the point of the old range (base…

Typical American wall sockets rarely deliver more than 120V * 15A. Plug in induction hobs targeting the American market clock in at 1800 W spread across all burners, at most. There are no four burner solutions for which this power is sufficient.

The curse of 120v strikes again. I did a quick Google and it looks like it'll cost you about $500 to install a 240v circuit, which is still a far cry under the 5k+ the above poster paid. A 3600kW combined set of burners is likely more than enough for many households

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#343

Post by jonnycomputer »

clusterfish wrote: post #229
jonnycomputer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here is an example. To make yogurt, I first heat up milk to just below boiling for about half-an-hour (this denatures the whey in the milk making for a thicker yogurt). If it boils, then it will usually boil over and make a mess. My electric stove heats on an on-off cycle. That means it goes through periods of being a lot hotter than average, and a lot cooler than average. If I set the electric stove so that the…

Then why don't electric stove makers make the stove cycle run at a higher frequency, reducing the deviations? Or provide a larger diversity of max power outputs on different burners of the stove, or something . Seems like this problem would have been solved long ago if enough people actually cared about it...

Well, not sure, but I had a little portable one that did not cycle at all.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#344

Post by analyte123 »

It’s telling all these studies he’s citing are from the 70s - scientists and regulators found out the hazards, and then they mandated vents via the building code since approximately the year 2000. This should basically be the end of the story. The message could be “unvented gas stoves are bad, consider this when buying or renting and remember to always use your vent if you have it”.

If the real goal is to ban gas stoves because of climate change it needs to be said upfront. From this perspective the problem isn’t the 0.12% direct emissions but that people like it enough to generate demand for residential gas service at all.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#345

Post by vehemenz »

Spooky23 wrote: post #181

The website is “carbon switch”, so the solution to this problem is obviously going to be induction stoves, although that isn’t the problem. An easier solution to the actual problem is to open a couple of windows slightly. The obsession with sealed living spaces to yield marginal savings in HVAC has pretty obvious downsides and measurable, marginal savings.

This was my conclusion as well. Use a good vent fan and crack a window. Unlike many commenters here, most aren't willing to spend $20k to replace their appliances for vague health reasons.

For example, natural gas powers my furnace, water heater, stove, and fireplace, as is common in the midwestern US. It would be impractical, not to mention expensive and wasteful to upgrade my electrical system to 200A and replace each appliance. Utility costs would increase too, and I couldn't use my fireplace or range when the power goes out (a battery backup would solve this, for another $2k).

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#346

Post by ktkoffroth »

clusterfish wrote: post #229
jonnycomputer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here is an example. To make yogurt, I first heat up milk to just below boiling for about half-an-hour (this denatures the whey in the milk making for a thicker yogurt). If it boils, then it will usually boil over and make a mess. My electric stove heats on an on-off cycle. That means it goes through periods of being a lot hotter than average, and a lot cooler than average. If I set the electric stove so that the…

Then why don't electric stove makers make the stove cycle run at a higher frequency, reducing the deviations? Or provide a larger diversity of max power outputs on different burners of the stove, or something . Seems like this problem would have been solved long ago if enough people actually cared about it...

I would imagine this is a situation where cost won over convenience. Particularly in the appliance space, products are often made actively worse in the name of driving down cost. And this isn't just one or two companies, it's virtually every single one.

This, of course, makes it unviable to produce a better product (like an electric stove with better temperature feedback/control) without dramatically increasing prices to make up for the loss in market share.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#347

Post by gruez »

peregrine wrote: post #222
Macha wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realised that induction responds instantly to any changes Hmm... My electric hob seems to control temperature by the amount of time the heating elements are active (+presumably a thermostat). There's a red light when the heating elements are active (or hot but switched off), and a definite click sound when the heating elements come on. You can see the heat immediately turn on when you change to a higher temp, and…

What you have is resistive electric stove. It is not the same as an induction stove.

Right, but duty cycling is a common method of output control. I've seen induction cooktops (presumably cheap ones) that also has the same behavior.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#348

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

adrianN wrote: post #241
jonnycomputer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, here is an example. To make yogurt, I first heat up milk to just below boiling for about half-an-hour (this denatures the whey in the milk making for a thicker yogurt). If it boils, then it will usually boil over and make a mess. My electric stove heats on an on-off cycle. That means it goes through periods of being a lot hotter than average, and a lot cooler than average. If I set the electric stove so that the…

You can make this a lot less severe by using a pot with a higher thermal inertia, e.g. something with a heavy bottom.

Why can't electric use a potentiometer instead of cycling on/off ?

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#349

Post by Aaargh20318 »

tempest_ wrote: post #313
dpark wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I’ve never seen a wok like this. Most flat bottomed woks are just flat bottomed. A wok with a flat bottom outside and curved surface inside would also be heavy .

I have a cast iron one sorta like this https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/lodge-cast-iron-wok... Yeah, it is heavy. You cant really toss things in it like you would a carbon steel wok.

I can’t access that page from Europe, it gives me a “to our valued customers: fuck you!” page.

If it’s heavy cast iron, it’s not a wok but a wadjan. Does it have 2 handles as well ? A wadjan is an Indonesian wok-like pan, but unlike a wok a wadjan retains heat due to it being heavy cast iron. A wok should be thin sheet steel so it heats up and cools down very quickly.

Wadjans are very good for things that have to stew/simmer, which is common in Indonesian cuisine. It has different uses than a Chinese wok.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#350

Post by rootusrootus »

hyperbovine wrote: post #305
jhallenworld wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The electrical work cost $1800 For less than 8 hours of work I'm sure.. I'm in the wrong profession. It could be worse, try doing this in an old building in NYC.

Unless there were serious unmentioned complications, that is a ludicrous amount of money to pay for a new 40-amp circuit. Upgrading the entire panel costs less where I live.

I expect it will cost at least that much for me to do it, and I think my arrangement isn't that uncommon. My meter is on the exterior garage wall, and so the panel is on the interior in that same location. The only path for wiring to my kitchen is up and into the attic then down, or around the garage in conduit until it can enter the crawlspace. Either option is going to cost a day of electrician time, and he's going to charge at least a grand for that. Add in materials, covid pricing, and if I get out of it for less than $2K I'd be surprised.

Fortunately my brother in law is a licensed electrician and he'll do it for his normal rate, which won't include the 100+% markup from the business. I'll pay him generously and still end up paying less.

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