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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#341

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

aristophenes wrote: post #316

I had to cancel my gym membership because I was moving, and it required me to send a physical letter. I did this, but found out later that somehow I owed like 2 dollars, so they didn’t count my cancellation request because my account wasn’t up to date (should be illegal). They continued to bill me the entire membership fee, but my credit card had changed, so they sent my account to a collections agency. Right when I…

This behavior is everywhere in the gym industry. It is so bad that the last time I joined a gym, I paid for a year up front with a physical check. I told them i don’t have credit or debit cards (lie) and can only pay by check.

At the end of the year, I walked away and never got any letters about paying a renewal or anything.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#342

Post by ratww »

makapuf wrote: post #208
ratww wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to "build" anything. Just have a button "cancel subscription" with a mailto: link... or even some text saying "email us at @ from your account and it will be cancelled within N hours/days". Currently what most companies (including startups) do is burying the cancellation instructions in some Knowledge Base, or forcing some back and forth via email or phone. You can rationalise bad behaviour all day, bu…

Well a simple email would be too easy to forge. But I'm sure its not hard to setup something I "your account" page.

> Well a simple email would be too easy to forge.

Email is how thousands of SaaS handle cancellations today already.

> But I'm sure its not hard to setup something I "your account" page.

That's the whole point of the subthread...

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#343

Post by jffry »

rogual wrote: post #22

I just expect these tactics from periodicals these days. Last time I signed up to one (The Economist) I used a pre-paid debit card for this very reason. Sure enough, they eventually gave me a reason to cancel (popup modals over their online articles for paying customers) and I just emptied the card and sent an email to their customer service saying "I hereby cancel my subscription; you are no longer authorized to cha…

Making them unable to easily collect money from you doesn't magically erase your contractual relationship.

They probably still just canceled your account since it's paid up front and it'd be more hassle to try and collect on your debt.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#344

Post by strenholme »

Since I live in California, which has a “click to subscribe means you must have click to cancel” regulation, this isn’t an issue for me. After the New York Times published their inaccurate hit piece attacking Scott Alexander and Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten, I was able to cancel online just clicking my way through.

I now subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, which looks to be the most neutral newspaper right now. Being a California resident, I have a special “California only” cancel button on my user control panel.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#345

Post by spaetzleesser »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #6

If they do something like this, it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. "The only reason why people would continue to use this product is... if we make it sufficiently difficult to cancel". When signing up for a product, if it uses tactics like this, I assume the product is no good, and even the producers of the product know it...

That would require that there is somebody overseeing the complete user experience. In reality the people who design the product probably never meet the people who design the subscription management systems.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#346

Post by nixpulvis »

AT&T is offensively in trouble here. Not only can't you cancel easily on the web, you can't even go into their stores to cancel either. Finally, after 45+ minutes on the phone, they have a habit of hanging up on you. It's now happened to me twice within a month of each other.

The FTC better have some real teeth here.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#348

Post by gwd »

avian wrote: post #156
adrianmsmith wrote: post #6

If they do something like this, it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. "The only reason why people would continue to use this product is... if we make it sufficiently difficult to cancel". When signing up for a product, if it uses tactics like this, I assume the product is no good, and even the producers of the product know it...

> it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. It can also show complete and utter overconfidence. "The only reason people would want to unsubscribe is by accident. We're doing people a favor when making it as hard as possible to make that mistake."

If it's so amazing that people only unsubscribe by accident, they'll certainly miss it quickly and subscribe again immediately. The practice of using "dark patterns" to prevent people from unsubscribing is utterly disrespectful.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#349

Post by Someone1234 »

algesten wrote: post #276
kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

I'm subscribed digitally using apple app subscription. That means I can just end it whenever and The Guardian wouldn't be involved.

But can also only read your newspaper subscription using Apple's walled garden rather than a web browser.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#350

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

wonderwonder wrote: post #282
maskros wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 minutes is still 4 minutes and 55 seconds too long. There's no good reason it should take 59 times longer than it ought to.

No argument from me. They asked why I was cancelling and I told them it was because I had to call to cancel.

Next time pay for the subscription by check (mail it in). They can’t bill you again automatically.
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