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Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

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Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#341

Post by depressedpanda »

echelon wrote: post #152
ddalex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman was ALMOST right. The fight is not about which programs the user can run, but who controls the user data

Tell that to every iPhone app developer. It's worse than not having the right to execute. You can't even build the program you want. You have to use Apple pay, Apple subscriptions, Apple login. And you don't even get a relationship with your customer. Truly draconian.

They also prevent installing 3rd party web browsers, while keeping Safari way behind all others in order to ensure that you cannot escape their control.

Their behavior is inexcusable but not surprising; what baffles me is that it's allowed.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#342

Post by ryanlol »

cma wrote: post #172
watermelon0 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe this is related to the security, and Windows is the only widely used platform that didn't enforce TPM until recently? macOS is even more locked down, but they don't impede or force users to use Mac App Store.

> but they don't impede or force users to use Mac App Store. They briefly pulled Epic's desktop signing keys, which they promised were for security only, over an unrelated iOS business dispute.

This is a terribly dishonest take.

There was no “unrelated iOS business dispute”, Epic was simply using their keys to sign software that they had agreed not to sign. Epic made it clear that they can not be trusted with signing keys, you can’t claim that this is unrelated.

Epic could have sued Apple and proceeded with their business dispute without abusing their signing keys, but instead they made a calculated decision to abuse their trusted position for a PR stunt.

Even if you fully agree with the position Epic is pushing in their lawsuit, these facts remain the same.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#343

Post by kenjackson »

fendy3002 wrote: post #261
kenjackson wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say this sort of stuff, but I feel like never really ask, is there any reason why Microsoft would do this? Desktop revenue from apps is small and will get smaller. MS gets that the web will continue to grow larger. I just don’t believe the App Store angle. I don’t think Satya does either. The cloud runs the company now. They did this for a different reason. I just feel like people aren’t even trying to…

My 2 cents, if MS control the app and store, it means no pirated office / sql server running on both servers and development machines. Open source solutions may also meet a hindrance when they somehow collides with MS's line of business (postgres). Theoretically Microsoft can get a cut from adobe subscription (no longer puchase, screw them too). They can also potentially force valve or epic for a fee or shared revenu…

But for Office they are already trying to move all the revenue to O365. That's the future and there you don't have to deal with piracy. I've never heard pirated copies of SQL Server being an issue.

And then, sure there's Adobe, but 99% of apps are pure web apps. No desktop client needed. Netflix Windows dekstop usage is small compared to their webpage and if MS pushed hard on this, they could just pull the app altogether.

The app store angle just isn't going to be this revenue monster for them long term. When I look at my desktop the only apps I have open are Microsoft and Adobe apps. That's it -- and the occassional game.

IMO, I think the thing they should care about the most is preventing ransomware/malware on their devices. Apps will be in the cloud, but the entry point is the device. Enterprises will want to have the most secure and easy to use entrypoint.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#344

Post by fuzzfactor »

eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

SecureBoot and UEFI were foisted to dampen continued viability of Windows XP and Windows 7, plus functioning as roadblocks to Linux booting and adoption as has been seen.

It's been years but Linux remains much more badly sidelined compared to working under BIOS, rather than UEFI.

TPM is to hasten the demise of Windows 8 & 10 and the hardware that dragged them in.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#345

Post by gruez »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #115
Arisaka1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw the writing on the wall the moment they could sloppily justify the TPM requirement. Then I got into arguments with people proclaiming that it's just Microsoft enforcing it for the casual user's safety, and that I'm a Microsoft hater. Who? Me, whose first programming language was C#, who worked as an Windows server administrator for years, and my operating systems have been nothing than Windows for 2 decades. An…

>I saw the writing on the wall the moment they could sloppily justify the TPM requirement. Microsoft doxed itself on the TPM limitation being purely arbitrary when Windows 11 compatibility checks passed on a Pentium 4 CPU and installed just fine due to a mistake from Microsoft where they forgot to blacklist that CPU family lol. https://twitter.com/Carlos_SM1995/status/1448561898035851264...

>Microsoft doxed itself

Does "dox" mean "anything vaguely secret" now? I still remember the days when it meant "personal information".

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#346

Post by [deleted] »

depressedpanda wrote: post #341
echelon wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to every iPhone app developer. It's worse than not having the right to execute. You can't even build the program you want. You have to use Apple pay, Apple subscriptions, Apple login. And you don't even get a relationship with your customer. Truly draconian.

They also prevent installing 3rd party web browsers, while keeping Safari way behind all others in order to ensure that you cannot escape their control. Their behavior is inexcusable but not surprising; what baffles me is that it's allowed.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#347

Post by skeeter2020 »

appleflaxen wrote: post #179
ddalex wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman was ALMOST right. The fight is not about which programs the user can run, but who controls the user data

He was early, but he wasn't wrong. We are still headed directly to the place he described.

How is early not wrong?

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#348

Post by anonymousab »

DeathArrow wrote: post #200
eps wrote: post #25

In related news - ever wondered why Windows 11 can't be installed on "older computers"? You know, the ones that don't have a TPM chip? Now you know. Windows 11 completes the lock-up of the OS. That's why Windows 11 exists in the first place. All other changes are secondary. Microsoft knows they would've not been able to pull shit like this as a Windows 10 update, so they were effectively forced to do a version increa…

>Mark my words - Windows 12 will severely impede direct installation even of an user-space software, funnelling everyone to go through the store. That's the end goal and we will all be there in a couple of years, whether we want it or not. This would be stupid. People use Windows because it's usable and because they can use software they want. But forcing the users and developers going through an app store won't be t…

> People use Windows because it's usable and because they can use software they want

Most people already use computers that, by default, only allow them to install signed software through app stores. For perhaps a majority of them, that's their primary or only computer.

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#349

Post by depressedpanda »

jeroenhd wrote: post #314
andrekandre wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern chips are a lot more reselient against crashes sorry for a basic question, but im not sure how a chip itself is more resistant to a crash (in os? user space?)...

I don't know the cause, this is based on the numbers they reported to defend their decision to exclude older chips. I think it has something to do with the modern instruction sets being kinder to the kernel and the fact that on computers with recent processors certain processor features are enabled in the UEFI config by default more often, but I couldn't tell you which features that would be. My hunch is that I has t…

> I don't know the cause, this is based on the numbers they reported to defend their decision to exclude older chips.

Why would you present Microsoft PR as fact?

Re: Microsoft no longer signs Windows drivers for Process Hacker

#350

Post by sli »

I hope the folks who claimed up and down that Microsoft was different and better these days, and ridiculed people who didn't believe it, are paying close attention to this.

Reminder that they own Github as well as what is likely the single most widely used code editor.

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