My small revenge on Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#341

Post by donarb » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

skuthus wrote: post #315

jasode wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To this: >To this date, I have sent 0 marketing emails trying to sell stuff. Heck, I don't even try to sell anything, I develop out of love and passion. The only reason email is needed is for password recovery And your other reply in the thread: >Frankly, I couldn't care less about whether you trust the app or not The fact is, I send 0 emails and privacy and security are top priorities. [...] TBH I am a bit tired of…

To be fair, Apple users only care about privacy when it suits them - 5-6 years ago, it was not a priority of any apple user and many mocked non-apple people for caring about it. If apples handing it to you, it must be important, or so the thinking seems to go

Apple has cared about user privacy a lot longer than 5 or 6 years. I've has Apple equipment for over 20 years and at no time have they sold my info to a third party or forced invasive 3rd party software to be installed on a new machine.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#342

Post by csmpltn » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

addison-lee wrote: post #335

csmpltn wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Hate to break it to you, your app is already ugly, the thin black border around the Apple sign in doesn’t change the fact the rest of the app looks awful. Also you’re not getting “revenge” on Apple, you are just fucking over your users who use Apple." What's going on with this entire awful thread? A bunch of Apple fanboys crucifying the developer for refusing to play by Apple's rules? The developer has every right…

The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?

> "The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?"

No, you don't get to crap on other people's work simply because you disagree with them.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#343

Post by cdubzzz » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

> Am I hurting myself? Am I shooting myself in the foot? Probably. But this is war

I don't think shooting yourself in the foot is necessarily a strong tactic in war.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#344

Post by collaborative » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #314

collaborative wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, here the 2-bit dev You don't need to choose between Apple, FB, or Google. You can sign up with your email address, which means these companies get no analytics on your behavior The reason "privacy" is in quotes is that some of us have started seeing through what Apple really means every time they use the word. As the EU's Executive Vice-President Margrethe Vestager has recently said regarding their Apple probe, p…

> You can sign up with your email address You’re still missing it - we don’t trust YOU with our email address . Before today we didn’t know who you are or what you stand for, and we didn’t trust you with our email address. After today, I’m sure I wouldn’t trust you with my private relay address, as you clearly care very little about your users.

On the contrary, I care very much about my users. Precisely because of this I am campaigning against Apple because they seek to extend their powers beyond reasonable measure. It is in everyone's interest, mine and the interest of my users, that Apple doesn't get to dictate us what we can and cannot do on their platform. But even worse is that Apple gets to dictate to us what we MUST do, which is the case in contention and a serious fault in my view

I get it, you trust Apple. But are you Apple? If not, then why do you defend what is clearly very unreasonable and anti-competitive behavior?

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#345

Post by CivBase » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

notwedtm wrote: post #332

CivBase wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's evidently not true. Plenty of apps, including the author's, use Google's and Facebook's auth solutions without being coerced into doing so. EDIT: Can someone explain how this is wrong?

The difference here is that neither Google nor Facebook require you to use them in most places.

That's my point, though. mikeryan argued that if Apple didn't force devs to support their auth solution, devs would just ignore it. But both Google and Facebook have created similar solutions and have been very successful without forcing devs to support them. If you make something good that users want, devs will typically support it of their own accord.

And to be clear, Apple's policy does not require all apps to support Apple ID - only those which support another SSO solution like Google's or Facebook's. A malicious dev who wants to collect user data has no incentive to support SSOs in the first place. By not supporting SSOs, they can still collect user emails and abuse them however they'd like.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#346

Post by addison-lee » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

csmpltn wrote: post #342

addison-lee wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?

> "The developer has every right to do what they did just as I have every right to call out their bullshit. Why don’t you fuck off?" No, you don't get to crap on other people's work simply because you disagree with them.

I did not call their app ugly out of the blue, they are the ones who brought that up on their own. This small thing called context might be lost on you.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#347

Post by willseth » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #236

kraf wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protest is an important form of participation in a democracy, it's not petty at all. Forcing developers to add Apple ID as a sign-in method is the petty thing. The developers have no power unless they unionize in some form which seems absolutely impossible. So it seems to me that it's all a developer can really do to make a statement and I think it's brave.

Apple is extremely hostile to developers. After a couple of bad experiences with the app store I simply refused to do any development for iOS.

What is hostility to you is customer service to me.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#348

Post by spacedcowboy » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

johnny_b_g wrote: post #321

spacedcowboy wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I do that ? I already distrust you based on your own words...

So you admit to accusing without evidence.

I admit to distrust.

I distrust anyone who tries to downplay privacy as important.

I distrust anyone who tries to brand a genuine privacy upgrade as "hype"

And, frankly, signing in (with AppleID or not) doesn't prove a thing one way or another. The OP could be simply harvesting email addresses and selling them off later[+]. (S)he could be upset that HME and SIWA are a threat to that business. Far-fetched ? Sure. More far-fetched than an adult throwing the tantrum on the website ? Not so sure...

Or another option along the same lines. Perhaps OP has another more-public site that (s)he doesn't want to take this stand on for PR reasons, so they're doing it here, and getting "awareness" out there by submitting to places like HN. In that case, sure, there'd be no email abuse on the site...

There's a few other options that are possible. None of these get around the basic premise that privacy on the net is important (at least to me, YMMV) and I don't trust those who decry it.

[+] Tesla does this, for example. All of a sudden, a couple of years after buying power walls, I'm getting emails to Tesla@ and texts containing Tesla@ to my phone number (which I usually obscure using google-voice) asking if they can give me mortgage offers (for example). Tesla sold my details when I stopped buying expensive stuff from them - this is why I set up a catch-all address, and used @ whenever I signed up for stuff. Now I use HME.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#349

Post by BugsJustFindMe » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #312

BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where was that made clear? The post appears to be a thinly veiled attempt to cajole people into giving app developers access to their email inboxes as a general rule by throwing insults at Apple for daring to hide email addresses from app developers. Even if this person never tries to sell me things, that rule is clearly meant to enable other people to do so. It frames "sending personalized emails" as though: 1) Th…

Caught me. I thought I was close to getting away with this, but alas, you've found that I am a saboteur from the International Brigades of Devious Developers and all I am hoping for is for public opinion to change so I can get my fellow criminals more email addresses Now seriously, I have said time and time again that I have no issues with Apple ID. I have a problem with how Apple forced it on me. Not nice

> I have a problem with how Apple forced it on me. Not nice

Every single point you bring up is about you and not your users. All of your complaints in your post and in your comments in this thread ignore the fact that what Apple is doing is better for the humans on the other side from you.

And your stinger at the end?

> Apple users who logged into Groups via the app with Apple ID will need to create a second account. Am I hurting myself? Am I shooting myself in the foot? Probably. But this is war.

You're not hurting Apple. At best you're hurting your users, but you're so focused on your own petty brigade that you don't see it or care. The war that you've just started is not against Apple but against the human users using Apple devices. They're the ones who would suffer from your decisions.

Making the button uniform across domains so that it's instantly recognizeable is user-positive.

Offering Apple ID as a sign-up option instead of making me give you my email address is user-positive.

If you don't care about being user-positive, if you're going to vociferously argue against it, why should users trust you?

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#350

Post by elzbardico » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

pjerem wrote: post #42

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app. I agree. I only create accounts for things reluctantly. Because 1. Why do you want my email address, or DOB, or whatever else? I don't want your marketing, and 2. I can't be bothered, I downloaded your app because I have something I want to get done.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Apple may not be eternal, but probably will still be around for many decades after your app is completely forgotten. I still have the same IBM and Oracle accounts from the 90's. Big enterprises tend to stick around for a friggin long time.