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Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

nature.com

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Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#341

Post by trompetenaccoun »

hef19898 wrote: post #330
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will still be picked up by a PCR test depending on the number of replication cycles. Which is why mass testing everyone, including healthy people, is such a dumb idea.

Only if the number of cycles wasn't pre defined. Which it is, nobody is running cycles until a PCR test turns positive.

That's not the only possibility. The number could also be predefined to a level making the tests too sensitive (which incidentally is the case in many countries, currently). If you have absolutely no virus particles the test couldn't detect them no matter how many cycles you go through.

Generally in the past, it was accepted practice that doctors do specific tests to get more certainty with diagnosing certain infections in a patient that's showing symptoms matching that disease. You could make a case for mass testing healthy people for all kinds of infectious diseases but for economical reasons I doubt many would support it. If we did that we'd have to somehow account for all the false positives, then.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#342

Post by 3np »

jeremyjh wrote: post #319
randomopining wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I think and is why I actually wanted to get the virus 2+ weeks after vaccination.

You want to get the virus so that in the future you don't...get the virus?

1. You could control the timing and your circumstances so you can quarantine etc, as opposed to having it unplanned, maybe while traveling

2. Supposedly symptoms and forward-transmission will be milder/less right after a vaccination as opposed to months later.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#343

Post by rimliu »

ilogik wrote: post #30
andy_ppp wrote: post #24

Does anyone know if PCR tests will find out if you've had the virus, after you had the vaccine?

PCR tests only detect live virus, not antibodies. there are several antibody tests for covid. As far as I'm aware, the vaccines only trigger the anti-spike protein antibodies, so if you test positive for other types of covid-19 antibodies, you've probably had it.

PCR test detect genetic material of the virus. It may be live virus it may be just fragments, impossible to tell.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#344

Post by amluto »

fsh wrote: post #327
andy_ppp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, is this one just for Pfizer as I've had Astra Zenica which I believe is a different set of spike protein DNA sequences?

All currently used vaccines use the same version of the spike protein sequence.

Incorrect. Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J use a pre-fusion stabilized sequence. AZ does not.

However, all currently used vaccines are just the spike (S) protein plus possible non-COVID proteins (in the viral vector vaccines), so none will induce antibodies against the COVID N protein.

I imagine it might be possible to guess whether someone was vaccinated with the AZ vaccine based on whether they have antibodies that are specific to the site that’s modified in the stabilized sequences. I don’t think anyone does a test like that.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#345

Post by btilly »

takeda wrote: post #249
seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

Seems like it is the other way, at least according to his paper[1]: > Previously infected individuals developed higher Ab titers to the vaccine than those who have not been previously exposed. These results indicate that mRNA vaccination rapidly induces a much stronger and broader Ab response than SARS-CoV-2 infection. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.15.440089v4

That paper demonstrates that the vaccine provides a stronger response to the part of the virus that the vaccine tries to get you to respond to than actually getting sick does.

It does NOT demonstrate that the vaccine provides any response to other parts of the virus. And it almost certainly does not, while getting sick does.

It also DOESN'T address the question of which provides a better response to novel variants of COVID-19.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#346

Post by trompetenaccoun »

grey-area wrote: post #334
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is still possible it was a defective test the second time, and something else than Covid. Now that the whole world has gone banana over a virus outbreak, it's really important to look at and understand how these tests work. Just because she tested positive does not mean she was really sick with covid, nor does it mean that the test was defective if we assume she didn't have it. It's not an on/off thing, it depen…

You can see from the figures released by various governments on testing rates vs cases that the false positive rate on tests is very low (< 1%, probably less than 0.2%). There have also been a few documented cases of catching it twice, so this is very rare but possible. So either cause is possible in this case, and the tests are really quite reliable as tests go.

>You can see from the figures released by various governments on testing rates vs cases that the false positive rate on tests is very low

This sounds like circular logic, or I'm misunderstanding what you mean. How were these "cases" confirmed? By testing? It would help if you cited the figures where the reliability of the tests can easily be seen.

Btw, my point was exactly that the issue isn't with the test itself but the interpretation thereof. Most people do not understand how they work and so they don't understand that even healthy people can test positive depending on the criteria we use to define "positive". But positive doesn't mean sick and it doesn't necessarily mean infectious either. By itself it doesn't mean anything.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#347

Post by ordiman85 »

koolba wrote: post #238
seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

What if you have the vaccine, and then get exposed to the actual virus? Would it be the best of all worlds as the existing antibodies would prevent a full on infection but your body would also learn more generalized attacks against the virus? Or would it not be enough exposure to warrant the latter?

By coincidence, my uncle got the covid nearly at the same time he got his Pfizer shot. Later, the symptoms became too serious. It seems that the vaccine didn't have enough time to protect him. He went to the hospital where he discovered he got the covid. He was under oxygen for weeks. Luckily, he recovered, but lost so much weight and now feels very weak. This is just one example, I don't know whether it would be different or similar in general. Nevertheless, it is still a reason to think that maybe it is not a good idea.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#348

Post by amluto »

swader999 wrote: post #321
unethical_ban wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you are, trying to say that Covid is less of a threat to yourself and others than the vaccine. Very few reactions have occurred. If you're worried about it, also don't go outside, cross a street, or go swimming in any body of water.

We still don't have enough data on whether this will suffer ADE. If parent is young, isn't in a highly infectious area and behaves cautiously, they may be making a less risky decision.

We absolutely have enough data to rule out meaningful ADE. Study after study (the phase 3 trials and all the ongoing surveillance) indicates a massive reduction in the rate of severe infection among vaccine recipients.

Sure, one can quibble about whether maybe some of the very small number of people who got a vaccine more than a couple weeks before a severe COVID case had a form of ADE, but that’s like saying that we haven’t ruled out that seatbelts might kill people. In both cases, the risk that a protective measure harms the recipient is massively outweighed by the degree to which the protective measure protects the recipient.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#349

Post by laurent92 »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #251
seren wrote: post #86

From my understanding if you had an mRNA vaccine, your body was only exposed to an artificial spike protein, so effectively you have spike specific antibodies. On the other hand, if you had a real infection by the virus, you likely have antibodies for the spike protein and other part of the virus like the shell. So from my layman understanding, the immunity should be more resistant to a mutation of the spike protein.…

Some time ago i listened to a respected Argentina scientist (that lives and works in France) saying something: “we can’t confirm nor deny anything about COVID, given the poor quality of scientific procedure we follow in testing” He was complaining of lack of scientific rigorousity with testing (at least in France) and he compared it to the “behind the scenes” of a restaurant’s kitchen. For example, he was saying that…

Elon Musk got himself tested 4 times the same day in 2020. 2 positive 2 negative.

Re: Had Covid? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

#350

Post by amluto »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #124
heyflyguy wrote: post #40

I am being shunned by my family because of my lack of interest in the vaccine. I've had COVID and recovered. I also don't get a flu shot each year. I really like not putting things into my body, especially when year after year I may or may not "catch" these things but if I do, I always recover. I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. However, none of these facts or articles such as this will ever effectiv…

>> I act responsibly and do not go out when I am sick. a. you caught covid, so does your approach work? b. you are often ill and contagious before you have any symptoms so unless you never go out this isn't sufficient c. you get vaccinated and a flu shot for the holistic group, i.e. society. When individuals talk about personal rights and the "me" I question if they get this. >> I have continuously been near or aroun…

I get a flu shot to protect others and to protect myself. I was very clearly exposed to the H1N1 pandemic flu a few weeks after getting the vaccine, and, to the extent I got sick at all, I had minimal symptoms. I can’t know the extent to which my vaccine protected me or protected people around me, but, on expectation, it certainly provided a considerable amount of protection to me and others.

(For all that the H1N1 pandemic flu was minor compared to COVID, it still put a lot of people in the hospital. I’m quite glad I didn’t get a severe case.)

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