Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

investor.lyft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 350 posts

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#341

Post by jxding »

jmchuster wrote: post #156
elpakal wrote: post #73

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I remember thinking about how different things were when trying to get my driver's license in US at age 16 - almost easier - in spite of how many more rules there were. I wonder how self-driving cars perform when trained in a world of rules and order and are then t…

Not even per-country, self-driving algos are trained per city. Just in the tri-state area, you have NYC's extreme aggressiveness, New Jersey's jug handles, and Pittsburgh's lefts.

This sounds hilarious. What are jug handles, and what are lefts?

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#342

Post by harambae »

jmchuster wrote: post #156
elpakal wrote: post #73

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I remember thinking about how different things were when trying to get my driver's license in US at age 16 - almost easier - in spite of how many more rules there were. I wonder how self-driving cars perform when trained in a world of rules and order and are then t…

Not even per-country, self-driving algos are trained per city. Just in the tri-state area, you have NYC's extreme aggressiveness, New Jersey's jug handles, and Pittsburgh's lefts.

I'm curious what company tunes locally to this level of driving characteristics (not for different laws which is sometimes necessary, but for different expected aggressiveness and situational awareness like you mention)

I work in this space and am not aware of what you're describing. M/L calibration is tuned where it's legally allowed to run on the streets as well as where there's interesting problems to practice against (bridges, tunnels, etc.)

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#343

Post by legolas2412 »

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #334
legolas2412 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Basic functionality for level five isn't level five." I'm surprised you say this totally seriously. For me this means that level 5 will be this year, and then there might be extra new cool features, which are not necessary. Basic functionality for level 5 sounds like both necessary and sufficient to me

I view part of basic functionality of level five as "Can the car drive on all roads in at least some circumstances?" That's still not sufficient, because it needs to do that in all circumstances (vehicles, people, animals, stuff, weather, etc), but even if it can handle all the circumstances (also basic functionality), if it can't at least all roads, then it's not level five. Right now, it's level two, and it's IMO g…

If that is your understanding of the phrase "basic functionality for level 5", can GM announce that they are installing two cameras in each car and now they have basic functionality for level 5?

If basic functionality does not need to be sufficient, then even the tiniest necessary thing is basic functionality? Like installing a camera on each new car? In that case, Tesla already has basic functionality for level 5 in terms of both hardware and software.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#344

Post by Daishiman »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #311
Zhenya wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is patently false. Check Australia and Africa where Land Cruisers rule and survive like roaches (as do old Mercedes). It's because they are well engineered.

So why don't they dominate in Russia and South America then?

What do you mean? In South America Corollas are considered to be far more reliable than equivalent Renault, GM and Fiat competitors. They cost a few thousand dollars extra, which is not a small deal for many people.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#345

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

legolas2412 wrote: post #343
omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view part of basic functionality of level five as "Can the car drive on all roads in at least some circumstances?" That's still not sufficient, because it needs to do that in all circumstances (vehicles, people, animals, stuff, weather, etc), but even if it can handle all the circumstances (also basic functionality), if it can't at least all roads, then it's not level five. Right now, it's level two, and it's IMO g…

If that is your understanding of the phrase "basic functionality for level 5", can GM announce that they are installing two cameras in each car and now they have basic functionality for level 5? If basic functionality does not need to be sufficient, then even the tiniest necessary thing is basic functionality? Like installing a camera on each new car? In that case, Tesla already has basic functionality for level 5 in…

Having hardware present could be the basic equipment required for level whatever functionality. Assuming the hardware had sufficient coverage/functionality.

Tesla does have basic hardware needed for level two functionality, maybe more. They could have basic software functionality needed for level two or more with the beta, but someone would need some kind of audit to confirm that.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#346

Post by xsmasher »

throwawayzRUU6f wrote: post #280
nradov wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond experience and fear, I think an autonomous vehicle will need a reasonably accurate mental model of how other human drivers on the road are likely to react.

The technical term for this is 'situational awareness' > Situational awareness or situation awareness (SA) is the perception of environmental elements and events with respect to time or space, the comprehension of their meaning, and the projection of their future status There's an bearish case to be made - not only are the state-of-the-art algorithms nowhere near this - it takes kids quite some time to acquire this s…

Cats can catch a sparrow in mid-flight, though; it may take specialized hardware or software, but not human-level intelligence.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#347

Post by jmchuster »

harambae wrote: post #342
jmchuster wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even per-country, self-driving algos are trained per city. Just in the tri-state area, you have NYC's extreme aggressiveness, New Jersey's jug handles, and Pittsburgh's lefts.

I'm curious what company tunes locally to this level of driving characteristics (not for different laws which is sometimes necessary, but for different expected aggressiveness and situational awareness like you mention) I work in this space and am not aware of what you're describing. M/L calibration is tuned where it's legally allowed to run on the streets as well as where there's interesting problems to practice aga…

I was thinking of nuTonomy when i wrote my comment.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#348

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

LightG wrote: post #296
omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been released to a small number of people, but... beta-FSD isn't level five. The only specific statement I've read from him is that the basic functionality for level five will be available this year. What's interesting to me is that people seem to attribute what news articles synthesize about his statements as statements made by him. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53349313

But you see how he/they should be clearer about it? To me, FSD is ... FSD ... what's FSD if it isn't level 5? Sorry, to Elon fans (and I appreciate Tesla), but it's nonsense and people are fools to put up with it, let alone pay $10k or whatever it is for the "opportunity" to have it later.

They could, but that's the nature of sales, and language to some degree. I drive on a parkway and park on a driveway.

As for the specifics, it's what's described on the Tesla website.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#349

Post by fnord77 »

pcwalton wrote: post #152
fnord77 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving in all conditions requires the computing power of a human brain. When we have computers that powerful, we can talk about L5.

If that logic were valid, then Garry Kasparov would have beaten Deep Blue in 1997.

chess doesn't require the processing of rapidly changing visual, inertial, tactile and auditory information while at the same time performing fine motor-coordination.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#350

Post by elpakal »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #340
moralestapia wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals ... That's a lie, though. The meme that México is an uncivilized place is dumb and doesn't hold much substance. Edit: Downvote me all you want, GP's statement is laughably easy to disprove. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As a Mexican-American living in San Diego, driving in TJ is way different. Like, so chaotic that I refuse to do it different. I leave the driving to the locals when I'm there. I don't think anyone's saying Mexico is uncivilized. It's a beautiful place with beautiful people, massive cultural output, great universities, etc. I'm just not going to invest in a startup trying to build self-driving cars for Latin America a…

100% - definitely not saying Mexico is uncivilized, I love it very much. But the traffic laws are just not the same people!
Post reply on HN