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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#341

Post by TulliusCicero »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #323
cogman10 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My near misses have never been at intersections or due to missing hand signals. My near misses have been because some idiot decides to hug or even drive in the cycling lane (usually while texting) or when someone parks a car in the cycling lane forcing me to move into the road (with cars being incapable of waiting for me to get around the idiot that decided to park in the cycling lane). Those are instances of followi…

There simply aren't enough cyclists to be a voting block so it's a chicken and egg problem. People aren't going to cycle because it's dangerous because there aren't enough people to vote in change for cyclists. It just goes around in circles.

Correct. Where you do get progress, it's mostly an ideology thing: more politically progressive people view more support for biking and transit as good things even when they don't currently use those things themselves.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#342

Post by throwaway0a5e »

occz wrote: post #270
moistbar wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you've ever driven in an American city, but those streets can barely fit a single lane of car traffic in some cases. Philadelphia in particular has streets so narrow that the line of parked cars along the side is enough to basically block the whole street. It's already incredibly uncomfortable to drive on those streets, so I don't get why you're so surprised that people would be angry about further in…

It should not be comfortable to drive around in a city. You are in a place with lots of people you can harm with your vehicle if you drive around fast, you should be driving slowly and paying close attention to your surroundings. Proper bicycle infrastructure (separated bike lanes etc.) and quality public transportation is the solution - the comfortable option should generally be to take a train/metro/bus/tram/boat.

If uncomfortable drivers were good drivers tanks and fork lifts wouldn't have seat cushions.

Unless cars are different than every piece of heavy equipment and industrial machinery ever (which have been studied into oblivion because there's money at stake) comfortable drivers are safe/effective/better drivers because it reduces cognitive load allowing operators to be more attentive to second order things (mirrors, what the car in front of the car in front of them is doing and so on).

I agree we need much more public transit and bike lanes. I think most car commuters would switch to subway at the city outskirts if the value prop was good enough.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#343

Post by skeeter2020 »

>> Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers.

...

>>Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 years for most cities in America.

Your attitude towards the proposal of moving to bicycle is literally the same as those against moving from fossil to electric.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#344

Post by rossng »

Laarlf wrote: post #314
fvdessen wrote: post #307

Cycling is not only good for the environment, but for cities in general. During the last confinement, when car traffic completely stopped, I realised that cars are the single biggest reason why living in the city can be unpleasant. People may not realise it consciously, but when they move out of the city, what they are looking for is a place with not as much cars driving around. Cars destroy cities by making a viciou…

I look at European city centers where cars often times get thrown out now and: they don’t agree. Profits were way down even before COVID. Even if you offer people the option to not use their car, they will avoid it. No form of transportation will ever be as pleasant to use. Cars don’t make cities unpleasant, cities themselves are unpleasant. No matter if cars exist or not. Bikes, pedestrians and cars must be properly…

Is there any evidence that removing cars from cities has a negative economic impact? All the stats I've seen point to the exact opposite.

For example:

* https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/econom...

* https://cyclingsolutions.info/cost-benefit-of-cycling-infras...

* https://cyclingindustry.news/724m-in-economic-benefit-on-80m...

In my anecdotal experience from the UK, high streets have been destroyed because they have failed to keep up with what people want.

Decades back, we started copying the US and building lots of out of town shopping centres surrounded by acres of car parking. Town centres started to compete by making it easier to drive in urban areas - but in doing so, they made the environment much less pleasant (loud, dirty, unsafe etc.)

Over time, retail became homogenised to the degree that every high street and shopping centre had exactly the same set of shops. This worked until internet shopping arrived. Why go outside to shop when it doesn't offer anything that you can't get on the internet - cheaper, and with a larger selection?

Now the only thriving high streets are those that offer something more than the internet can. Unique independent shops; space for people to meet friends and relax; street cafes; art/culture and so on. Removing cars in favour of walking and cycling is one of simplest and most powerful tools available to achieve this.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#345

Post by psychiatrist24 »

monkmartinez wrote: post #335
jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch have solved the kids/cargo problem. My friend lives in a suburb of Amsterdam. She has an electric assist bike with a cargo carrier. She uses it to carry kids and cargo, like groceries and such. She used it to carry four kids (her three and one of mine) when we visited. We took the rented car and she beat us there.

How do I carry my kids and groceries in +100F(38c) or nearly freezing weather?

Same way as in other weather.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#346

Post by flaque »

basch wrote: post #241
flaque wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m convinced most people haven’t realized just how good ebikes have gotten. ~$1000 gets you basically a slow, mini-motorcycle. It’s dramatically cheaper than a car, longer range than a bike, and wonderful in cities.

For someone who wants a more bicycle like experience, it's better to set expectations beginning at $3k-4k. And as far as "longer range than a bike" that's more than likely untrue. The largest batteries, best motors, and most efficient mode might make it to 100 miles on a charge, but more realistic on more common models is 30-40 miles in a middle power mode. A 40 mile limit is less than you can acomplish on a non elec…

By range, I meant the amount a non-athletic person might use for commuting.

Most people can easily go 20 miles on an electric bike, but have difficulty going 20 miles on a normal bike.

Also Rad power bikes are in the ~$1000 range and are great!

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#347

Post by mc32 »

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

Rather than switching people who already own a car to bikes, it’s much much easier to keep people who bike biking: i.e. India, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. and not let them adopt a car centric pony of view (as well as students in the US/Can. who are 16 going on 18 and steer them towards bikes.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#348

Post by titzer »

jedberg wrote: post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

Step 1. Paint bike lanes.

Step 2. Fine bastards who violate them.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#349

Post by supertrope »

samcheng wrote: post #142

I'm surprised at all of the anti-cycling sentiment here. It's really a better mode of transportation than the car, in certain situations. It's healthy, relaxing, good for traffic and the environment, and convenient for short trips. The article isn't saying that you need to ditch the car for a bakfiets, just that you can have a significant positive impact by doing SOME of your trips via bicycle. Remember that most car…

Very few people choose to bike in an environment hostile to pedestrians and bicyclists. The infrastructure and culture has to come first. And the infrastructure won't come until there's a critical mass of people demanding it.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#350

Post by rossng »

sokoloff wrote: post #171
dfgdghdf wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your commute is sufficiently short Cities are usually quite small in area. USA is an exception to this but that is due to car dependency. We can't reverse care dependency if we continue to pander to it. In London, the average speed of traffic is much lower than a gentle cycle. For longer distances, municipalities should focus on rail infrastructure. You might also consider an e-bike, which can double or triple your…

From your reply, I'm guessing snow isn't much of a factor where you live.

I would highly recommend watching this video about exactly that topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
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