Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 1001 posts

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#341

Post by tinyhouse »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #298
Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

Its worth remembering that whatsapp used to have an annual charge, and it grew successfully with that. The charge was only removed once FB bought them. Personally I don't know anyone that started using whatsapp after the fb purchase, so they were all happy to pay for their use of a messaging app.

That's not entirely true. They did charge something tiny to use the app (I think it was ~$2/year) but in many countries (outside the US where they were much more popular) they didn't block users who didn't pay. If you didn't want to see annoying reminders you would just pay and get rid of it. Many people I know never paid.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#342

Post by eightails »

throwaway17_17 wrote: post #333
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

This is a genuine question, what is it that prohibits your group from using text messages and phone calls? I do not use any apps for communication, and can’t think of why I would have a need.

To list a few benefits:

- e2e encryption

- many extra chat features (reactions, stickers, replies, polls, etc). It might seem unnecessary but imo they do genuinely increase functionality and ease of communication

- scalable to large groups (maybe sms is as well, I've never tried more than 3-4 people)

- don't need a phone, can message from a computer instead

- messages sync across multiple devices

- video calling for groups with some apps

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#343

Post by vinay_ys »

I don't give access to my contacts to any app. And I don't give any access permissions to Signal. Signal must make it easy to invite friends without giving access to contacts. A simple Copy invite message with a mobile install link would be great – so that I can paste it into whatever groups I'm on and as my status message.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#345

Post by mortenjorck »

7v3x3n3sem9vv wrote: post #331
tobib wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

Signal is "owned" by a non-profit. They can't be sold to a for profit, they learned their lessons from WhatsApp. Lastly, Signal doesn't collect/store any of your data on their infrastructure other than a few hashes required for operation. WhatsApp/facebook on the other hand collect, and likely keep, forever, at much metadata about you as possible. The only way to pay for this free storage is to stay more data so they…

I know the circumstances are different, but what almost happened to .org is going to haunt me for some time.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#346

Post by Macha »

throwaway17_17 wrote: post #333
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

This is a genuine question, what is it that prohibits your group from using text messages and phone calls? I do not use any apps for communication, and can’t think of why I would have a need.

Most phone companies on their lower tier plans make you pick 1-2 of free calls, texts or a data allowance. High end plans aren't nearly so popular because most people don't get high end phones and of the people that do, many buy direct from Apple so don't have a contract associated with it, instead just using a prepay or sim only plan. So it's really only the high end android phones which get bought on contract which is a much smaller market than iPhones or the actual big market segment here: €100-200 androids

Nobody picks free texts. This leaves 15c/message as a discouragement for using SMS.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#348

Post by sombremesa »

Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

> All these “free” products out there that seem great have Venture Capital investors

Not all of them. Some, like unroll.me, blatantly tell you they sell your data - and people still give them access to their entire E-mail inbox.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#349

Post by bowaggoner »

vinay_ys wrote: post #343

I don't give access to my contacts to any app. And I don't give any access permissions to Signal. Signal must make it easy to invite friends without giving access to contacts. A simple Copy invite message with a mobile install link would be great – so that I can paste it into whatever groups I'm on and as my status message.

I respect that perspective, but did you know that Signal uses a private protocol so that your contacts are never sent to their servers?

https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#350

Post by mr_toad »

seesawtron wrote: post #146
utf_8x wrote: post #62

Once again - Signal[0] as an alternative. It's fully Open-Source (including the backend) and their crypto is public and independently verified[1][2][3]... [0] https://signal.org/en/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software)#Encryption_p ... [2] https://threatpost.com/signal-audit-reveals-protocol-cryptog ... [3] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1013.pdf [PDF]

Social life is impossible without the mainstream technology. Sure you can find alternatives but if no one uses it other than you, you end up being sidelined. The technology gets enforced and leaves one with no choice but to accept it or be a red flag. Shouldn't it be possible to delete your whatsapp chat and contacts data regularly from the cloud? Eg. one could delete the whatsapp account, clear data on cloud and mak…

> Social life is impossible without the mainstream technology.

If people won’t go to the trouble of using an alternate way of getting in touch with you then they’re not really your friends.

Post reply on HN