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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#331

Post by 7v3x3n3sem9vv »

tobib wrote: post #316
Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

Signal is "owned" by a non-profit. They can't be sold to a for profit, they learned their lessons from WhatsApp.

Lastly, Signal doesn't collect/store any of your data on their infrastructure other than a few hashes required for operation. WhatsApp/facebook on the other hand collect, and likely keep, forever, at much metadata about you as possible. The only way to pay for this free storage is to stay more data so they can target you for advertising dollars.

This doesn't guarantee that Signal will live forever, but at the very least they've learned from previous mistakes and have taken actions to address them.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#332

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

tobib wrote: post #316
Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

Other people who run on donations: Public Radio, The Red Cross, all government services, all religions. It's fine to be skeptical of how they use their donations, but don't be skeptical just because that's their funding model.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#333

Post by throwaway17_17 »

frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

This is a genuine question, what is it that prohibits your group from using text messages and phone calls? I do not use any apps for communication, and can’t think of why I would have a need.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#335

Post by webmobdev »

7v3x3n3sem9vv wrote: post #331
tobib wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

Signal is "owned" by a non-profit. They can't be sold to a for profit, they learned their lessons from WhatsApp. Lastly, Signal doesn't collect/store any of your data on their infrastructure other than a few hashes required for operation. WhatsApp/facebook on the other hand collect, and likely keep, forever, at much metadata about you as possible. The only way to pay for this free storage is to stay more data so they…

Where is Signal's owner non-profit located? Different countries have different laws regarding the status of a corporations profit or non-profit label.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#336

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

FabHK wrote: post #182
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Telegram. It’s as easy to use as WhatsApp for non-tech family and friends, yet has all the features you want out of an IM without too much of the bloat. It has native apps on all major platforms, and for the techies it has a solid API so you can do fun stuff like write your own bots.

> all the features you want out of an IM without too much of the bloat. Except default E2E (which WhatsApp, Signal, Wire, Threema etc. do provide).

Yes but it does have e2e if you “want” it and for 99.9% of people that’s enough. The other 0.1% who “need” it are more willing to learn/adapt to Signal/Wire/etc.

I use Signal with tech friends, and Telegram with family/non-tech friends. I feel like the latter using Telegram is still better than them using WhatsApp, so I’ll take what I can get.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#337

Post by Macha »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #298
Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

Its worth remembering that whatsapp used to have an annual charge, and it grew successfully with that. The charge was only removed once FB bought them. Personally I don't know anyone that started using whatsapp after the fb purchase, so they were all happy to pay for their use of a messaging app.

I have to say that prior to being free of charge, it wasn't nearly so popular in most markets. Viber was king in my country and individuals still used SMS outside a "messaging of last resort" use case it has become.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#338

Post by el_dev_hell »

throwaway17_17 wrote: post #333
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

This is a genuine question, what is it that prohibits your group from using text messages and phone calls? I do not use any apps for communication, and can’t think of why I would have a need.

Not OP but in a similar situation.

The main lock-ins for WhatsApp with my friends/family/colleagues are:

1. Group chats. SMS group chat doesn't exist (or it's next to unknown) in Australia.

2. Sharing images and videos. SMS destroys images/videos/gifs (if they even send).

3. International. Messaging friends/colleagues when they're overseas is easy.

4. Videochat (however, it's usually FaceTime with an older relative).

I attempted a shift to Telegram with a few close friends and family members. Eventually, we started to drop back to the "normal" comms route because our extended network was on WhatsApp/iMessage and juggling several methods was irritating (e.g you message a friend on Telegram and get no response -- they then message you later that day on WhatsApp -- it's irritating to move the conversation back to Telegram).

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#339

Post by cat199 »

jsinai wrote: post #198
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

Sure the network effect is strong but let’s not forget how WhatsApp got here in the first place: people installing a strange new app, often shared by their friends via a text message invite link. I remember sitting in a circle with a group of friends one night 10+ years ago while each of us installed WhatsApp and had our first conversations on the app. It was a time when BBM was dominant and cross-platform messaging…

> cross-platform messaging was new.

when was cross-platform messaging ever new?

... IRC, AIM, etc ...

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#340

Post by webmobdev »

throwaway17_17 wrote: post #333
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

This is a genuine question, what is it that prohibits your group from using text messages and phone calls? I do not use any apps for communication, and can’t think of why I would have a need.

I don't use any of the private and popular messaging apps on my phone and do rely on SMS and phone calls to stay in touch. But there are limitations:

- SMS is not encrypted.

- SMS supports text only. MMS is not well supported, and often not free.

- SMS is sometimes not as "instant" as it can be delayed.

- Delivery reports and, read receipts are not user-friendly, and maybe unreliable, too.

- Group SMS support depends on your default SMS app.

RCS or Rich Communication Service on 4g and 5g looks to fix this, but support and compatibility between network is still lacking. Privacy laws also need a reevaluation as even cellular providers are looking to data harvesting to make more money and RCS may also lack encryption support.

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