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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#341

Post by mkl »

glandium wrote: post #233
danudey wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, the M1 Macbook Air is two to three times faster than the SQ2, including comparing ARM Windows on the SQ2 against ARM Windows in a VM on the M1 Air.

Relatedly, I wrote this on Twitter a few weeks ago: cargo build of sccache on a Lenovo Yoga C630 (Snapdragon 850) in WSL: 4 minutes 55 seconds. On a Macbook Air M1: 55 seconds

WSL 1 or 2? WSL 1 has very slow disk access, so compiling can be pretty slow. I.e. I would expect WSL to be slower for disk reasons even it was running on an M1.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#342

Post by modo_mario »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #216
gorkish wrote: post #204

Apple needs to give a little here. I think it's patently ridiculous that we have to enlist the assistance of console hackers in order to have a chance at porting the most used operating system in the entire world to run on hardware that in all likelihood already happily runs it inside of Apple's labs. > In particular, we will be reverse engineering the Apple GPU architecture and developing an open source driver for i…

Apple sells hardware and now services. Software seems to be a cost center. So I doubt a third party OS like Linux will ever be a priority for them in their consumer products.

People aren't asking them to go out of their way to provide support or develop anything. Only to be open with their already existing documentation so that those open source devs that want can without doing unneeded work.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#343

Post by my123 »

monocasa wrote: post #272
mhh__ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Nvidia document theirs now, and the firmware details are on GitHub to some extent for the Nouveau guys.

> Even Nvidia document theirs now If you're talking about ptx, that's not the hardware ISA, but instead an IR for their shader compiler.

NVIDIA have this: https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-binary-utilities/index.htm...

That doesn't operate on PTX but actual hardware binaries. Oddly, they ship disassemblers, but not assemblers.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#344

Post by klelatti »

kube-system wrote: post #242
klelatti wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a new Intel 13" MBP just before the M1 announcement specifically because I needed an x86 machine. No intention to sell but I suspect resale value will stay OK as there is likely to be ongoing demand from those who want a Mac for x86 cloud development (and non-technical users probably don't care if its x86 or M1).

My shop is also all x86 in the cloud... but I took the plunge anyway. I'm glad I did; Rosetta 2 works really well.

That's good to hear. The critical issue for me would be running an x86 (incldung AVX) Docker image on M1. Reasonably sure that's not going to happen in the near future.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#345

Post by Grustaf »

somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

Did Apple ever try to prevent people from running Linux on Macs? It sounds like that is what you're saying, but my impression is quite the opposite, the made Bootcamp etc.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#346

Post by Grustaf »

anothernewdude wrote: post #316
somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

I would say that I wouldn't use Apple hardware if it didn't have an OS that doesn't prevent developers from working properly - like Linux. But really, the state of their support is so garbage I don't care what the performance of their systems is like. I know their warranties aren't worth anything and their disregard for consumer laws is absolute. Never will I buy their garbage.

The triple negative has me confused, are you saying macOS prevents developers from working properly? I know very few developers that don't use macs, is this what you're actually saying?

What support of theirs is "garbage"? Their documentation for some aspects of iOS/macOS frameworks has been pretty bad for a few years, but that's probably not what you're referring to?

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#347

Post by Grustaf »

jmnicolas wrote: post #334
oneplane wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really own any high-tech stuff anyway (with that interpretation). You can't boot your Intel of AMD CPU without their signed and sometimes encrypted code. You can't even initialise a single core, let alone the DRAM controllers. Everyone likes to point at Apple, because that's easy, but it's neither new nor big nor special. There are practically three things at play: - root-of-trust, if you have a better solu…

> You can't boot your Intel of AMD CPU without their signed and sometimes encrypted code. Except that Intel and AMD don't care what you run on your machine, they don't lose money if you don't run their software. When you run Linux on a MAC, Apple isn't getting money from their iCloud subscriptions and from the store so they have a motive to stop you from escaping the walled garden.

You don't need iCloud to use macOS. And macOS itself is free, as is their awesome office apps, XCode and a lot of other useful apps and services.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#348

Post by seba_dos1 »

nindalf wrote: post #324
somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

> teensiest bit of cooperation Apple did put in the effort to cooperate when they added support to boot other OSes. Apple hasn’t prevented anyone from running Linux, they simply haven’t written Linux drivers for their hardware or provided a manual to do so. Most of the effort in Asahi Linux is going to be writing drivers for hardware that hasn’t had Linux drivers written for it. It makes sense that a Linux driver doe…

Apple never added support to boot other OSes on arm macs.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#349

Post by seba_dos1 »

Grustaf wrote: post #345
somehnguy wrote: post #278

Is anyone else ever saddened when they think about the man hours spent on projects like this (reversing software or hardware to accomplish what should be a simple goal) when all it would take is the teensiest bit of cooperation to not waste all those hours? I use waste in the sense of like trying to assemble something complicated with the instructions just out of arms reach, not in the sense of doing something pointl…

Did Apple ever try to prevent people from running Linux on Macs? It sounds like that is what you're saying, but my impression is quite the opposite, the made Bootcamp etc.

...which doesn't work at all on arm macs this submission is about.
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