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Firefox Was Always Enough

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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#341

Post by tristan957 »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #132

I had been using Firefox as the primary browser since before it was v1.0 until some time in 2016, which is when I switched to Chrome. The reason was mostly usability related. Chrome felt faster and easier to use. With the reach of Google, Firefox had to be that much better to keep up, like it was compared to any version of IE. Unfortunately, Firefox kind of remained the same while Chrome became better and better. In…

Unless Brave is forking Chromium, Google owns them. Google controls what gets merged into Chromium. Brave can talk the talk all they want, but they merely exist as a Chrome skin with crypto added in and a few privacy features included.

I know they are committed to supporting Manifest v2 (I think), but more and more decisions are going to have to be made where they differ from upstream Chromium. I have doubts this will be sustainable forever.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#342

Post by shakow »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #224
etempleton wrote: post #2

I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…

I hate to bring it to you, but every single one of your priorities have been long rejected: Thunderbird was officially discontinued like ten years ago, Mozilla had just let go a large number of devs in early 2020 and then again a couple weeks ago, among them all Servo developers. Even if you wanted to financially support Firefox or Thunderbird development through donations, there would be no way to. Your money will g…

> nobody needs

With Rust and WASM being funded and pushed by MS, Amazon, Google, Nature, and many others, I'm afraid you're dead wrong.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#343

Post by jdc »

heavyset_go wrote: post #335
krmboya wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't understand how Mozilla failed to execute on Firefox OS. From where I am at it was a massive opportunity for Mozilla and Web developers all round the world. They didn't have to take on Android and iOS directly, but may have gotten there eventually thru 'worse is better'. Imagine a web developer learning just a few APIs and being being able to customize their web app for smart TVs

> Imagine a web developer learning just a few APIs and being being able to customize their web app for smart TVs This was WebOS in 2009. Windows Phone, WebOS, Meego and Ubuntu Phone all "failed" around the same time period as Firefox OS. I have a hard time laying blame solely on Mozilla there.

FWIW webOS is still alive and well.

https://www.webosose.org

https://github.com/webosose

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#344

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

heavyset_go wrote: post #335
krmboya wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't understand how Mozilla failed to execute on Firefox OS. From where I am at it was a massive opportunity for Mozilla and Web developers all round the world. They didn't have to take on Android and iOS directly, but may have gotten there eventually thru 'worse is better'. Imagine a web developer learning just a few APIs and being being able to customize their web app for smart TVs

> Imagine a web developer learning just a few APIs and being being able to customize their web app for smart TVs This was WebOS in 2009. Windows Phone, WebOS, Meego and Ubuntu Phone all "failed" around the same time period as Firefox OS. I have a hard time laying blame solely on Mozilla there.

What was the hard part that caused Android and iOS to win? Was it convincing manufacturers to ship with them? Or was it just the first mover advantage for iOS and the network effects of the Play Store with Android?

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#345

Post by mrec »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #289
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this may sound like a blasphemy and anachronism rolled into one, but why can we not return to purchasing a copy of software? All of a sudden, the incentives to deliver 'monetizable' product are gone, because you already got your money. Or that does not jibe with continuous rent seeking?

> why can we not return to purchasing a copy of software? Because your competitors are free and users expect free and we have a culture stuck in a rut of "everything is free" because ads don't have them taking money out of their wallet. Not every software is in a niche where they can flip the switch back into a premium model and have a good outcome. If Firefox did it, most of us would stop using it. Maybe Firefox is…

But, as we lament every time this topic comes up, it's not even possible to donate to Firefox. I don't know whether that would bring in significant cash, but it's frustrating that the option isn't there.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#346

Post by mrguyorama »

cheeze wrote: post #151
Yaggo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that Firefox isn't an excellent browser on its own, but on macOS Safari rises the bar very high if you care about details (most people don't).

I disagree with this. Safari and Chrome are both noticeably better than Firefox on OSX. I'm a Firefox fanboy, still use it on OSX because it's important to me, but the amount of random pauses, crashes, etc is just painful on OSX. It's like none of the Firefox developers use it on OSX or something. And before someone says "oh it's your extensions", that IMO leads to two talking points 1. It's 2020 and major extensions…

I've run nightly on crap macbooks for 3 years and had 0 of this experience. I run uBlock origin as one of my only extensions.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#347

Post by emn13 »

naniwaduni wrote: post #315
tleb_ wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the Hacker News bubble but that's not "a great many Internet users". People either use what is pre-installed, what they are used to or what their techy friend recommended them.

That "what their techy friend recommended them" does a hell of a lot of work. It pretty much drove Firefox up to 30% market share once, remember.

A counter point to that is that the impact of the tech sector on recommendations like that is ever shrinking - tech is normalized; everyday stuff where people feel comfortable making their own choices (and where the number of people that haven't made those choices pretty solidly yet is ever shrinking). The market is more mature, in essence.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#348

Post by sgarman »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #285
fragmede wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can be done with a browser in the future? There's no shortcoming of vision , the problem is monetizing it. A browser in the future is going to let me copy and paste seamless between mobile and desktop. What, are you going to charge 1 cent per completed copy and paste? Am I going to pay a dollar to get nightly builds of Firefox onto my device? If I have an Apple device that's not even possible!

I know this may sound like a blasphemy and anachronism rolled into one, but why can we not return to purchasing a copy of software? All of a sudden, the incentives to deliver 'monetizable' product are gone, because you already got your money. Or that does not jibe with continuous rent seeking?

Certainly there is a lot of rent seeking going on but I don't think all subscription models fall into that category.

I think subscriptions to software can do a lot to bring in line users needs with company needs. Especially around security of purchased software - if there are no profits to be made as the software is already sold why patch security issues or bug fixes, your only goal is to sell the next one.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#349

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

naniwaduni wrote: post #315
tleb_ wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the Hacker News bubble but that's not "a great many Internet users". People either use what is pre-installed, what they are used to or what their techy friend recommended them.

That "what their techy friend recommended them" does a hell of a lot of work. It pretty much drove Firefox up to 30% market share once, remember.

I think it's why Firefox's market share is declining too. I don't recommend firefox for non-technical users anymore because of its relative complexity and incompatibility with the modern web when compared to Chrome.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#350

Post by open-source-ux »

RobertoG wrote: post #138
open-source-ux wrote: post #27

I've long wondered why Mozilla hasn't worked on a embeddable Gecko engine as an alternative to Electron. The Mozilla alternative could be promoted as a modular, cross-platform component but in a stripped-down, faster and less memory hungry form than Electron (assuming these features can be achieved). The traction that Electron has gained as a cross-platform option for building apps is huge. It's only set to get bigge…

What I would like is to be able to use Firefox as a UI for my local projects. Now if I want to do it, I have to run a server and duplicate code. The ability to create extensions for my personal use that can interact in local with my computer would be great. I understand that a browser have to be sandboxed but there are ways that could work without being unsafe. Maybe even two separate downloads, one for people that w…

"This would not solve Mozilla problems"

I think it might lead to growth or "mind share" among app developers (and indirectly to end-users who use the apps built by devs).

The Chrome engine now powers the Edge and Brave browsers. Electron is used to built desktop apps by companies everyone recognises e.g. Microsoft, Slack, Figma. The appetite among companies and devs to build Electron apps shows no slowdown.

Mozilla is nowhere to been seen in ths important space. In my opinion, this is a missed opportunity.

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