Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals • Hacker News Board

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#341

Post by Pfhreak » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:38 AM UTC

fock wrote: post #320

Pfhreak wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feeling of gender dysphoria is not a pleasant one. Coming to an understanding helped me rationalize and address my anxiety. Ultimately, gendered stuff is all around us and it is not so easy to "just not bother".

so you are a non-transsexual transgender? or did you transition to a suitable body? because yes, gendered stuff is all around us, but in most "though" cases, it mostly seems to relate to sex, because that's something which is easily determinable for a large fraction of human beings. So your problem was that other people didn't accept you for what you are: is this really different from society not accepting that you w…

There isn't a body that's suitable for me, unfortunately. The best I could hope for might be a somewhat waifish androgyny, but even that would only be a very, very loose approximation.

> So your problem was that other people didn't accept you for what you are

No, the problem is that my identity didn't match my external presentation. Yes, fixing that comes with some stigma (and that sucks), but fundamentally the problem is making the outside match the inside.

> And why is it necessary for people to advertise their pronouns

Being called he causes dysphoric feelings and anxiety for me. This is not something that I have conscious control over. I have learned some adaptive behaviors, but ultimately it's much less uncomfortable for people to use they/them for me. I ask people to do this, and generally people don't have an issue. You could also use my name and avoid pronouns if you want. Ultimately, you can choose not to use my pronouns knowing it makes me uncomfortable. I ain't going to yell at you, but I'll also remember that you made a choice knowing how it impacts me.

> Why do we have to divide people on a spectrum

Great question. I actually think of gender as much more complex than a spectrum, but there are folks who see it as two, concrete points and will loudly exclaim "ONLY TWO GENDERS" to me. I'm just sharing my own observations about the behaviors I've seen and how I choose to interpret them.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#342

Post by knolax » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:48 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #181

knolax wrote: post #168

Psychology is the same field that recommended lobotomies roughly a generation ago. Unlike the difference between medieval plague doctors and modern doctors, it does not seem that psychology has reformed in that time, and as such anything coming out of that field should be regarded as noise.

That would be psychiatry.

Same difference.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#343

Post by transatlantic38 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 2:52 AM UTC

37r7rudjduj wrote: post #339

transatlantic38 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not that poster but I can elaborate. Basically your physician couldn't easily use "biological sex" as a blanket term to accurately asses the risk factors and health needs of a medically transitioned person. Our sex is "otherwise complicated." The reason for this is that medical transition, primarily through the mechanism of hormone replacement therapy, actually changes some aspects of biological sex and the assoc…

I wanted to say thanks for giving such a detailed reply. I still have some things that I'm unsure about as far as the framing of everything but having concrete examples like your point about your lowered risk of breast cancer is immensely helpful in understanding where I'm making social judgements vs. just being ignorant about the topic as a whole. It's often hard to get clear answers like yours because just phrasing…

I appreciate this, thanks. Answering these kinds of questions can feel like unwrapping bandages in front of strangers. So it's good to hear that it helped somebody out. Thank you for your empathy.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#344

Post by pgcj_poster » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 4:02 AM UTC

jjcothrow wrote: post #277

Can someone answer my genuine question on this topic? At my high school in California I knew a trans girl (m to f used she/her) that was super chill and maybe a bit on the spectrum. At the same time there were a couple dozen girls that called themselves trans and asked everyone to use they/them but acted and dressed all 100% within female stereotypes (not that trans is about stereotypes I’m just illustrating my point…

Trans people generally have gender dsyphoria, a different condition from body dysmorphia, which they usually don't have. The actual diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria in adults and adolescents given by the DSM-5 are quite broad, and would include anyone who exhibits "A strong desire to be of […and…] be treated as a gender other than one's assigned gender" for at least six months. It also explicitly states that gender they identify as does not have to be the one opposite their birth sex. It can be neither i.e. non-binary.

By the diagnostic criteria, those non-binary students you were talking about may well have had gender dysphoria... it might have extended to discomfort with their bodies too: Did you ask any of them? Dress and presentation doesn't necessarily mean that much, especially among teenagers who are still figuring things out and might not be ready to change everything. I knew a teenage trans boy who had long, pink hair. I also knew an adult trans man with a beard who still liked to wear dresses sometimes. Being trans doesn't just mean escaping from one cage that's colored pink into another one that's colored blue.

I think it's more common for teenagers who were assigned female at birth to publicly identify as non-binary because most cis people unfortunately just perceive it as meaning "quirky tomboy," which is more socially acceptable than the transfeminine equivalent, "weird f * * ." I'm a trans woman, but I thought I was non-binary for about a year while I was in high school. I was sure as hell too scared to tell anyone that, though.

I ended up determining that I was the gender opposite the one I was assigned at birth. Some teens who identify as non-binary will probably end up identifying as their assigned gender. Others will continue to identify as non-binary: Kate Bornstein is non-binary and in their 70s. I think it's good that people get the space to explore their identity, even if a few end up having been attracted to a label for the wrong reasons.

Regarding the expanding definition of trans, in the past, trans people had to fall squarely within the norms for the gender they were transitioning to, or else they couldn't usually get treatment. For instance, Harry Benjamin, who was one of the early doctors who performed sexual reassignment surgery in the US, classified trans women into six groups, only two of which he labelled "True Transsexual" and approved for surgery. For a trans woman, you had to be attracted to men, be conventionally feminine, have believed you were a girl from an early age, etc.

Most of the trans community is glad that we've moved past this, but there's a minority that wants to bring back the stricter standards. They're called "transmedicalists" or sometimes "truscum" and and can often be identified by conspicuously using the word "transsexual" rather than "transgender" in 2020 (although some people use it for more benign reasons). They often say things like "we just think you need to have dysphoria to be trans." However, as noted, the clinical definition of gender dysphoria includes just about anyone who self-identifies as trans, and the actual argument is whether you have to be a binary gender, have meet the typical norms for that gender, and have to want to pursue all the medical options for transitioning to that gender. There's no agreed-upon word for trans people who don't meet the arbitrary standards required of a "true transsexual," but some transmedicalists call them "tucutes." Others call them "transgender" and call anyone they thing is really trans "transsexual." To be clear, though, speaking this way is very offensive to most trans people and you should never do it.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#345

Post by ladberg » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:19 AM UTC

jauer wrote: post #164

ladberg wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet that jauer meant to say trans men (the terminology can be confusing at first) because autism is typically diagnosed earlier in life than a gender transition, so if it's under-diagnosed in women then it would also be under-diagnosed in trans men.

Transitioned a while back, didn't get it backwards :) To elaborate: I was wondering if trans men (AFAB) acquire the male-gendered autistic traits and trans women (AMAB) acquire the female-gendered traits (and underdiagnoses from diagnostic criteria being focused on male norms). Why I'm curious: I was diagnosed with Asperger's as an adult (no access to MH care as a child because raised in a cult), transitioned, and af…

Damn I’m gonna see myself on /r/DontYouKnowWhoIAm :)

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#346

Post by Ntrails » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:29 AM UTC

Macha wrote: post #286

jmcgough wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans people in general were largely ignored by research until the 2010s, so there's very little we do know at this point. But as for unresearched hunches... There's lots of jokes in the trans community about how your stereotypical trans girl is on the autism spectrum, with rainbow-colored hair, and into kink, anime, and programming. I think there's more of a willingness to challenge societal expectations of us in th…

> and into kink, anime, and programming. The anime one is an interesting example, because I've seen the perspective in the anime community is that trans people are also disproportionately common there, similar to your mention that anime is an interest that is disproportionately common among trans communities. The common brightly coloured hair seems to come from the fact that society is not fully accepting of trans pe…

>other social expectations (like modest hair colours) are also downgraded in importance

The old school "goth" style, well that was breaking the social clothing/makeup etc conventions. Rebelling against the norms. But there would be a group of 5 people doing the exact same thing, rebelling in the same way, and bonding together over it.

I'm not sure to what extent it generalises to the above, but just a thing that was commonly observable

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#347

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:36 AM UTC

odessacubbage wrote: post #228

hh3k0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. I have often heard it in a sense of "should not be catered to but rather given medical help". A fellow student once told me that he considers the current way of treating gender dysphoria irresponsible and that, if we'd treat schizophrenia the way we treat gender dysphoria, we'd all have to aknowledge the voices they hear and…

if we treated gender identity disorders the way we treated schizophrenia we would consider them to be credible & serious conditions that require medical intervention at an early age as opposed trying to pretend they'll go away if you close your eyes long enough.

I believe parents subjecting their children aged 5-9 to hormone treatments are abusers running after a trend. Schizophrenia usually develops after puberty, previous cases can happen but are extremely rare. The parents decision ultimately, but I don't see the advantage of medical interventions for anything related to gender "at an early age".

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#348

Post by DanBC » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:42 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #347

odessacubbage wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we treated gender identity disorders the way we treated schizophrenia we would consider them to be credible & serious conditions that require medical intervention at an early age as opposed trying to pretend they'll go away if you close your eyes long enough.

I believe parents subjecting their children aged 5-9 to hormone treatments are abusers running after a trend. Schizophrenia usually develops after puberty, previous cases can happen but are extremely rare. The parents decision ultimately, but I don't see the advantage of medical interventions for anything related to gender "at an early age".

You must think doctors are fucking idiots if you think they're handing out hormones to pre-pubertal children on the say so of a parent.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#349

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #348

raxxorrax wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe parents subjecting their children aged 5-9 to hormone treatments are abusers running after a trend. Schizophrenia usually develops after puberty, previous cases can happen but are extremely rare. The parents decision ultimately, but I don't see the advantage of medical interventions for anything related to gender "at an early age".

You must think doctors are fucking idiots if you think they're handing out hormones to pre-pubertal children on the say so of a parent.

Unfortunately there are private clinics practicing this very thing despite a majority of people growing out of their desire to transition at a later age. Medical abuse is not unprecedented. I believe it to plain child abuse and propose the the children affected get some legal support for possible recourse.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#350

Post by DanBC » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #349

DanBC wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must think doctors are fucking idiots if you think they're handing out hormones to pre-pubertal children on the say so of a parent.

Unfortunately there are private clinics practicing this very thing despite a majority of people growing out of their desire to transition at a later age. Medical abuse is not unprecedented. I believe it to plain child abuse and propose the the children affected get some legal support for possible recourse.

This is nonsense.