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People love working remotely

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Re: People love working remotely

#342
post #67

This piece has the feeling of being written by "every Friday is Hawaiian T-shirt day" after his employer went all remote and he needed a new task. I have worked remotely more than not and it's not ideal. I suspect that if teleportation machines existed, then remote work wouldn't be a thing. Once you leave the office for the day (or leave the house to go to the office) then the logistical problems start (where do I fi…

Wow, there are a ton of assumptions in this argument, and you seem to be projecting a lot of your personal beliefs and feeling as well. I don't have children, but my girlfriend and pets have never bothered me or been a distraction nearly to the extent of distractions that occur in an office. I definitely don't have a big house and lots of money to build an "operations center." I have a little room that I use as my of…

There's a difference between being distracted at home and being distracted at the office. If you're getting distracted at the office, you're still doing your job. It might even specifically be your job description to be distracted. If you get distracted all day at work and get nothing scheduled done, then you still did your job. If you get distracted half the day at home (still less than a full day of distractions at the office,) then you have a major problem which is entirely your fault.

> I have a little room that I use as my office, homelab, and to home a few other hobbies.

That you have a spare room is entirely my point. That's a luxury that not everyone has. If you don't have this, then you are at a disadvantage for being successful with remote work. A workplace is a sort of equalizer, though certainly not perfect. Rich or poor, all you have to do to work at McDonald's is show up. The workplace provides everything else. Sure, your employer may provide allowances for your home setup, but not all will do that and they certainly can't create a spare room in your house. The closest they can get is to pay for a co-working space.

> Of your examples of "lost communication," none of those are things I feel I would be missing out on and I've never had issues communicating with my coworkers remotely.

It's undisputable that you lose information with remote communication vs face to face communication. We communicate with body language and emotion which doesn't carry over well even in a video feed. People are more willing to share certain things in different modes of communication. Some people don't like to use messaging at all. Remote work is still "good enough" but you do lose information. Losing information doesn't necessarily create "issues communicating with my coworkers remotely" but it does have an adverse effect.

Re: People love working remotely

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. For me commute is the most pointlessly wasted time a person could do. And I have played lineage. So as long as your commute is 10 seconds home office beats real any time. At least until we get the whole teleportation thing nailed down.

Not to discredit your opinion, we're all different. For me the commute is worth the benefit of human interactions, seeing my coworkers for lunch and I also go to the gym next to my office. If I could only have my own private office it'd be great...

What prevents you from going out on a lunch with someone or the gym while working remotely? You just have to live in a metro area, not suburbs. I generally have done that for the last 13 years.

Re: People love working remotely

#344
Most comments here are "remote work is great, but"... That's ignoring the inevitability of technologies. This time it's different. Working from home was the norm for centuries, then the industrial revolution happened, and then the internet happened. Nowadays, way too many people don't work from home, for no good reason. As software keeps on eating everything, remote work will cause major disruptions in the way we live, the places we live and our lifestyles. For those of us that learned to work remotely, it is an irreversible change (and polls show that too). Lifestyle adapts to work, not the other way around. As such, we should be thinking about ways in which societies and lifestyles will switch from the 9-5/mon-fri, to something that is very asynchronous yet vibrant and fulfilling. Going back to the office just a dumb desperate solution, considering you are adding back commute time, office politics, useless distractions etc etc. Communication tools are already too good to be ignored. (Also, remote work is an onramp to freelancing/consulting/whatever. Because, if you can work remotely for one employer, why not work for another?)

Most of the complaints such as isolation and disconnection are because society has not adapted to remote working rather than the merits of RW itself. Imagine a world where everyone whose job allows it works remotely. That 's basically the majority of workers[1]. Imagine the change in the pace of life and thousands of people feeling as lonely as you. The precipitous fall of real estate prices as commercial properties become vacant. The empty roads that don't need more than one lane. PEople reconnecting with their neighbors by spending a lot more time in physical proximity. Preschools and even schools becoming obsolete and replaced with home/small group schooling. Our current lifestyles are hostile to remote work. We don't want to return to the closed societies of small villages, but we also want to make working at home humane. We should be able to work on this problem and i look forward to the things that people will invent in the next few years. Changes like this have happened before

1. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/4187653/7825806/IMG+...

Re: People love working remotely

#346
IRC for whoever is live + good email lists + discipline on wiki|docs + good PM/ticket communications is faster and more reliable than anything in person. Non-remote is a productivity disadvantage to people who need fast communication. A team of people online can say more with no interupt-crosstalk that cripples in-person "collaboration".

Re: People love working remotely

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing wrong about a multi day email chain. Email chains can work for some things, but they mostly suck compared to face to face meetings. You never know if someone else is silent because they agree, they haven't read the whole email, or they haven't taken time to write a response. Most things able to be solved by email chains are better off in some sort of issue tracking or wiki system.

Face to face meetings also suck because the extroverts own the floor. You don't know if people didn't pipe up because they agree, or because they aren't rude enough to stop Bob talking, and now it's too late.

The same thing happens in email chains as well.

A good meeting lead can make sure they get everyone's input in a face to face without necessarily putting them on the spot. Sadly those are few and far in between.

I worked with one and they were excellent meetings. They got ideas out, and predicted possible issues better than any other meetings I've been part of.

Re: People love working remotely

#349
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're also "Agile" now, so we spend a ton of time in useless meetings. Might be lost in translation - but agile shouldn't require a ton of meeting time and should work fine remotely. And hey, one of the principles is that you give teams the environment they need to get the job done, not the environment management thinks they deserve. Unless you mean "Agile" as, say, UK government terms it, also known as waterfall. In…

Agile introduces and requires meeting time. If you were doing Just Shut Up And Get It Done before, Agile is definitely meeting-heavy. Agile is agile compared to Waterfall, but overall it’s a process of no one trusting the workers to take on work and hit deadlines if they’re not in meetings telling you about it. The only constant between every Agile organization I’ve been in is the forced meetings. Everything else was…

People keep talking about "waterfall", but I have not seen real, actual "waterfall" in the last 15 years, anywhere. Last time I've seen it was at Microsoft in early 00s, and even there it wasn't super-strict, people just spent their "planning" time prototyping stuff so as not to have to work as hard when the "design" phase ends.

Moreover, for certain types of work (such as, for instance, building platforms) a forced "design" and specification phase would probably be a net benefit. As they say, "half a year of coding can save you two weeks of planning". Except when you also release your shit to users you can't fix your old design mistakes because everyone depends on them now.

Re: People love working remotely

#350
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happened to me. What I did was go into the office and constantly talk to the vp's and ceo. Not about anything important really boring weather/how are you doing? The more removed the person from my department the more I would go out of my way to talk to them. Start asking difficult questions at the all staff forums. Always threw in doubts in meetings with non-tech people. I asked for a special chair for my back. Start…

This sort of sabotage wouldn't get past the management where I work. They'd see right through it and fire me.

Sounds like you could try one of my favorite strategies from the same source:

'When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and consideration." Attempt to make the committees as large as possible - never less than five'

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