Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by camjohnson26 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:12 AM UTC

goshx wrote: post #291

rifung wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you would expect that someone from tech revolutionizing an entire industry at global scale would get a little bit more respect and appreciation here. I'm not one of the people negatively commenting but I personally think one's character is significantly more important than ones accomplishments and he doesn't really seem like a good person. I admire that he is trying to do something about global warming. Nevertheles…

Why he doesn't seem like a good person to you?

Emailing a Buzzfeed reporter that someone is a pedo who isn’t? Telling the police that a whistleblower was planning a mass shooting attack at Tesla HQ? Marketing autopilot as anything more than a driver assist system when misuse of the system has now killed at least 4 people?

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by _pmf_ » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:12 AM UTC

kec wrote: post #146

kylec wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW doesn't need to pay top dollar for a prestigious brand, they already have one. Tesla will be bought out by the likes of Geely or Tata who don't have strong brands of their own, but have already been going around and scooping up smaller car brands like Volvo and Jaguar.

They have history of doing so though: They own both Mini and Rolls-Royce now.

BMW bought the brand rights to Rolls Royce for 120 million EUR. BMW will not buy Tesla at anything above a eighth of their current stock price.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by newnewpdro » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:15 AM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #183

kylecordes wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla as a part of Apple (whose cash stuck between mattress cushions far exceeds the market cap of Tesla) would be unstoppable. Also, a Tesla car is an iPhone in a world of flip phones. The Tesla design ethos fits Apple pretty nicely.

I don’t really agree with the idea that Tesla’s are so far ahead of everyone else. Having just road in a model 3, so much of it felt really cheap. From the way you need two hands effectively to open the door from the outside, the flimsy plastic compartment in the center console that you have to “gently” close otherwise it bounces open, watching the autonomous car visualization merge and split apart cars that in reali…

I get the impression that the actual Tesla advantage is more in the propulsion and power systems.

The rest of the car is garbage, and areas where the established incumbents should naturally be superior.

But the good news for Tesla is they should be able to improve the build quality and general car/manufacturing stuff relatively quickly now that the important differentiating foundation bits have been done spectacularly, if they can just survive long enough to iterate.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:15 AM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #91

Causality1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be easier if he'd stop making grandiose claims like "self driving is only two years away!"

Two years away? Just in mid-February he said "You'll be in FSD, coast to coast, in of our cars, _this year_".

On the other hand "coast to coast" probably just means "freeway, under normal conditions" which is the lowest of bars to clear.

So if they can make it capable of detecting stationary objects they're basically already there.

Still amazingly far from "full" self driving.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by haditab » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:16 AM UTC

7e wrote: post #28

cameldrv wrote: post #7

It was fairly obvious that this was going to happen when they announced their "Investor Autonomy Day" a couple of days before earnings. Get people thinking about the long term rather than this quarter.

In the long term robotaxis will be a commodity service with razor thin margins: just like existing taxis, airlines, and shipping.

I don't know man, imagine all the advertising opportunities they have. They can play ads on screens all over the car the entire ride. They can suggest restaurants and bars and charge them for each customer they bring.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by newnewpdro » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:18 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #141

cjhopman wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SpaceX is killing it on profits SpaceX isn't open about their financials, but all indications are that they are losing money.

Fair. But it's hard for me to imagine a future in which Tesla grows at a better rate than SpaceX.

What are you smoking? The market for automobiles is basically the entire world's adult population. Space rockets not so much.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by wil421 » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:21 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #304

wil421 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significantly higher? A brand new 3 series is 40k, an Audi A4 is 39k, and a C Class is 41k. I’m not even looking at the smaller 4 door models from Audi and Benz which are even less than the Model 3. Maybe Europe gets a smaller 4 door BMW. I didn’t even count the offerings from Japan which are even less.

An Audi A4 is really not a luxury vehicle in any meaningful sense.

That’s a pretty laughable statement unless you’re in Europe and get the lower trims we don’t. Pretty much all car reviews put the A4 in the luxury sedan segment[1]. Not the segment with the Accord or Camry.

Following your logic the model 3 isn’t a luxury car either.

[1]https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15379432/small-entry-...

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by karkisuni » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

foota wrote: post #312

sliken wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the Panasonic thing very weird. Tesla claims to be battery limited, and also mentioned that their popular and in demand power walls are being throttled by lack of batteries. Does make me wonder. Is Panasonic blackmailing Tesla with limited supply to influence Tesla's battery supply in China? Is Panasonic and/or Tesla lying about the situation?

I read that the plant is operating way below what the capacity should be, so this could be a reflection of them trying to improve on their utilization of what they have now instead of throwing money at the problem.

That was the explanation Elon gave via twitter: "Pana cell lines at Giga are only at ~24GWh/yr & have been a constraint on Model 3 output since July [...] Tesla won’t spend money on more capacity until existing lines get closer to 35GWh theoretical." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1117144865299501056

Not sure I understand the difference in costs between 2 lines at full capacity vs 3 lines at 66% capacity. Obviously 3 lines is an extra 50% on hardware cost, but what's the cost of time to refine and make mistakes (not to mention the lost revenue on producing more cars) on the last 33% capacity? Apparently Elon would rather get closer to 100%.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by lancewiggs » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #304

wil421 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significantly higher? A brand new 3 series is 40k, an Audi A4 is 39k, and a C Class is 41k. I’m not even looking at the smaller 4 door models from Audi and Benz which are even less than the Model 3. Maybe Europe gets a smaller 4 door BMW. I didn’t even count the offerings from Japan which are even less.

An Audi A4 is really not a luxury vehicle in any meaningful sense.

That’s a statement that’s easy to make from a privileged position. Luxury is in the eyes of the beholder, and that car costs two thirds of the median income (before tax, healthcare, housing, food) in the USA.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

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Post by paganel » Thu, Apr 25, 2019, 6:25 AM UTC

golfer wrote: post #168

sandworm101 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few more years of this amd they may be bought out by the likes of BMW. The tesla brand is worth something, even if on the hood of a german car.

Tesla has about $9B in debt. They are not an attractive takeover candidate. They've never turned an annual profit.

VW Group’s recent Audi e-tron has to 30-40% lower range than a Tesla 3 (~200 miles vs ~325 miles) and as such I would totally see them putting forward the money to buy Tesla in order to bridge this big technological gap.