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Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#341

Post by interfixus »

arghwhat wrote: post #340
interfixus wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 5.7 million people, actually, but otherwise, yeah. Note, though, that it's not really just Peter paying Paul, as the transaction is still between their respective banks with everything that entails. And a MobilePay account is actually tied to a specific payment card. I have had a MobilePay transaction refused (and from a public institution, no less) because my account did not involve a Dankort , the only payment…

Oh, damn, I mixed up the DK population with the world population. Just makes the number more incredible. :) Anyway, it is really Peter paying Paul. It is just centralized and in a stable currency, with all the benefits that entail, such as instant execution, ease of use and predictable outcome. It of course also has the downside: There are gate keepers, in the form of Danske Bank and other banks involved. Bitcoin is…

Thanks, I may need to review my understanding.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#342

Post by benpiper »

m_alexgr wrote: post #228
dalbasal wrote: post #173

Good. The cashless drive gives me the creeps. 1 - First, I like cash. It's tactile and gives me a feel for my spending. 2 - Cards are an duopoly, layered onto an oligopoly. Cashless gives this system a 2% tax on all spending (+ fraud, which retailers pay for). 3 - Government control is creepy too. Liberty reasons, privacy reasons, single-point-of failure reasons. Just simple competency reasons. 4 - It advantages big…

Agree pretty much apart from the bitcoin failure part. In nine years, bitcoin keeps on ticking and evolving. Segwit was/is a big deal, as lack of segwit held up further development. Lightning, x-chain atomic swaps, Schnorr signatures, MAST, side-chains to name a few additional features and improvements. It's early days yet. Give it time.

The technology is fascinating. But almost nobody uses it as a currency.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#343

Post by Thiez »

greggarious wrote: post #321
Thiez wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how will you feel when your credit card company sells your purchase history to some analytics firm that deems you high risk for health issues, sells that data to your insurer, and your rates go up? I feel confused that you have this very accurate description of a problem ("companies sell your personal data") and your solution is "we must hide from the companies" instead of "we must enact laws to restrict dealing in…

Do you have any data to support your assertion that policy based measures (versus technical measures) are solution? Facebook used contracts instead of technical controls to protect data, and we've seen how well that worked :) I'll admit many on HN are obsessed with overly technical solutions, but "using cash" seems much simpler than "establish a complex regulatory regime".

The GDPR seems to have many companies changing their policies and behaviour, and it's not even active yet. So there's that. I'm sure they'll be plenty more data to be gathered on the consequences of those rules the next few years.

Technical measures can also be effective, but they usually suffer from the problem that each individual must know about the threat, must know about the technical solution, and must use that solution, which usually requires some effort. I see very few people arguing that health inspectors ("policy") should be abolished and every individual should be responsible for not eating at unhygienic restaurants, even though there are technical solutions one could use that would allow someone to mitigate risks in such a scenario.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#344

Post by ionised »

optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

It's not all about productivity.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#345

Post by ionised »

nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

> that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can

This has to be satire, or else you must have been asleep for the last 10 years.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#346

Post by EADGBE »

sowbug wrote: post #270
EADGBE wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t help that card terminal/chip card rollout in the US has been catastrophic.

I live in the U.S. and haven't noticed anything catastrophic about it. Am I living in a bubble?

Possibly not for you, but I noticed a long roll-out of switching from stripe to chip. Then, a lot of card readers in major retail stores not "allowing" chip transactions and having to switch. Still even now, most fast-food places disallow chip transactions.

Most recently, I have a repeatable bug in Walgreens where my newly issued credit card (old expired) will not run chip transactions. Their system requires me to attempt a chip transaction first (of which I must do three times) before it will allow me to finally swipe (and work). If I attempt to swipe at first it will require a chip transaction (and on, and on, and on...)

However I can't completely blame Walgreens on it; they're the only one that's reproducable 100% of the time (3-5x now since card was issued). I've also had to re-do transactions with that card at Target but that's hit-and-miss.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#347

Post by EADGBE »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #166
EADGBE wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just pay a percentage to the change maker instead...

What change maker? The store owns the machine, which net saves them money because then they don't need as many cashiers.

I made an assumption that these registers/change machines were leased, as well. This is from my background knowing that most chain restaurant POS terminals are leased out.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#348

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tigershark wrote: post #290
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you not used a modern contactless payment system before? They're fast enough to be used on the barriers of underground railway systems which see thousands of passengers pass through at peak times. That isn't that impressive when you consider the equivalent traffic was handled in cash before electronic payment systems even existed. > Even the time taken to empty the contents of your wallet into the appropriate…

Seriously just admit that you never used a contactless system and stop here. It is becoming quite ridiculous and surreal if you are saying that using cash is as fast as tapping with a contactless to enter the underground. I would really be curious how could Waterloo handle over 100 million passengers per year with cash.

NYC used subway tokens until the 1980s, which are effectively cash. So did pretty much everything else up to that point, since not long before that electronic payment systems didn't exist.

The obvious solution for extremely high volume systems is to have the fares come out to even numbers so there is no need to make change. How long are you imagining it takes to drop a coin or two into a turnstile?

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#349

Post by alxndr »

__alias wrote: post #264
sitharus wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cashless transactions don’t have to go through the card networks. Here in New Zealand around 2/3rds of all retail transactions are done via cards because many years ago the reserve bank mandated free inter-bank transactions. This means direct bank-to-bank transactions via the local EFTPOS network are free for both parties (with exceptions for some low-use plans, and businesses typically rent the terminals). Also the…

blows my mind that people overseas still use cash. Literally the only reason I ever get cash out is to buy weed

And now the cannabis shops in California take credit cards!

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#350

Post by notahacker »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #348
tigershark wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously just admit that you never used a contactless system and stop here. It is becoming quite ridiculous and surreal if you are saying that using cash is as fast as tapping with a contactless to enter the underground. I would really be curious how could Waterloo handle over 100 million passengers per year with cash.

NYC used subway tokens until the 1980s, which are effectively cash. So did pretty much everything else up to that point, since not long before that electronic payment systems didn't exist. The obvious solution for extremely high volume systems is to have the fares come out to even numbers so there is no need to make change. How long are you imagining it takes to drop a coin or two into a turnstile?

The obvious solution is the status quo contactless payment system that can collect £4.90 from your wallet faster than the ticket holders can find the slot.

Even if London Underground decided to upset millions of commuters by raising the price to a round £5 in the most expensive attempt to rescue an incorrect HN claim yet, the contactless system would still be quicker than the machine that scans a fiver. Trust us, we've actually used both...

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