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Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

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Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#341

Post by ekiru »

DannyBee wrote: post #44

This is not surprising, but sad. Years ago, i was dragged (i was the only engineer in the local office) into a whitehouse (or maybe it was state department, i can't remember) sponsored working group on online sex trafficking. The non-profits dedicated to fighting this, while seemingly well-intentioned, were completely and totally unwilling to see any other perspective or try to find shared ground. It was scorched ear…

> The only thing mildly surprising to me here is that it took them ~10 years to get the house to do it.

Some of the non-profits dedicated to fighting this opposed the bill!

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#342

Post by [deleted] »

safety1st wrote: post #210
SeeDave wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In defense of the "scorched earth approach or nothing" folks: from my perspective... it's a completely and totally human response to faceless, blameless, unapproachable (from their perspective) perpetrators and facilitators of systematic abuse and exploitation of innocent and vulnerable people. If you've ever felt frustrated at an IVR system for routine tasks such as banking, restaurant reservations, canceling a gym…

The "scorched earth" approach only gets support when the nature and scope of the issues are distorted. What are the real issues in play? One is prostitution, a form of sex work which is illegal in most of the United States. The American public have varying feelings about its legal status, how enforcement should be carried out, etc. Public opinion doesn't support measures which endanger sex workers (which FOSTA does),…

[deleted]

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#343

Post by hellofunk »

telesilla wrote: post #320
hellofunk wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work All you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

It may not end sex trafficking but legalising prostitution lowers harm levels on workers, but allowing them to seek medical care and police protection without risk of incarceration. There is no down-side to legalisation as many would say for drugs, as it allows problems to have legal solutions.

I'm not in disagreement with you about legalization of prostitution in general, but with regards specifically to sex trafficking, there is much evidence from several countries that legalization actually makes sex trafficking worse -- most likely due to increased demand for a service anyone can enjoy legally.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#344

Post by deadbunny »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #246
syshum wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I really wish that I could come forward with a solution to the online sex trafficking problem. Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work Step 2. Stop Diverting Police Resources to enforcing laws on what consenting Adults do on their own time (both Prostitution and Drugs) Step 3. Stop Criminalizing Speech driving to further and further under ground were it is no longer tracable at all The "scorched earth" groups are in no…

> Step 2. Stop Diverting Police Resources to enforcing laws > on what consenting Adults do on their own time (both > Prostitution and Drugs) But society has rules, it's the grey areas that are always going to be in contention. I'm sure you want the police and laws there to protect children from sexual exploitation. The same with drugs, you don't want smack and cocaine being sold in Boots. So there has to be a law, an…

> The same with drugs, you don't want smack and cocaine being sold in Boots.

I do actually. Taxed and regulated the same as alcohol and tobacco.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#345

Post by DanBC »

telesilla wrote: post #320
hellofunk wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work All you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

It may not end sex trafficking but legalising prostitution lowers harm levels on workers, but allowing them to seek medical care and police protection without risk of incarceration. There is no down-side to legalisation as many would say for drugs, as it allows problems to have legal solutions.

You get those same benefits if you keep buying sex illegal but decriminalise selling.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#347

Post by narrator »

smadge wrote: post #213
narrator wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm a relatively old guy, I'll tell you how it used to work. Before cell phones, online dating and apps, the way people met people was through friends, or at work, or god forbid, randomly approaching a stranger and introducing oneself, usually at a nightclub or bar, but sometimes at a supermarket or cafe. Rejection happened in one's face publicly in front of other people!

Someone just shared their heartwarming tale about how they met their spouse using craigslist personals and you have the audacity to tell them that their story is illegitimate because "back in my day" people met differently? Have some heart and recognize that their story of how they met is legitimate, cherished, and deserves protection.

I'm just trying to provide some historical information for millenials.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#348

Post by AlexC04 »

post_break wrote: post #6

How soon will reddit follow? The great purge has started. Guns removed from YouTube and reddit. Now meet up portions are being nuked.

I wonder if this is why they axed all of their "firearms sales"

https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/21/reddit-bans-communities-...

     The social site has updated its policies to ban
     the trade of firearms, explosives, drugs (including
     alcohol and tobacco), services with "physical sexual 
     contact," stolen goods, personal info and 
     counterfeits. Accordingly, Reddit has shut down 
     numerous subreddits that either directly traded 
     in these goods or were clearly meant to enable those 
     exchanges, including r/gunsforsale, r/stealing (yes, 
     it existed) and r/darknetmarkets.
Perhaps they were taking a broad interpretation of something in the legal language.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#349

Post by jrs235 »

austinheap wrote: post #288
jrs235 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume things got worse because cowardly assholes are now allowed to treat the prostitutes disrespectfully. Before, the assholes that were afraid of the law wouldn't risk going to a prostitute. Now that the law won't hurt them, they go and are demanding disrespectful assholes. Just a guess. Edit: law abiding != kind, respectful, or moral

Implying that there is some uptick in people who are "allowed to treat the prostitutes disrespectfully" in well-regulated societies is intellectually disingenuous. To quote @Illniyar: "Legalization is far from perfect but abuse in Nevada brothels is much lower than as street walkers." Assumptions are...well, you know the saying.

Fair enough. Thank you for the reply and insight.

My point is, there are more people now openly able and willing to approach prostitutes who think "shut up and do what I say because I'm paying you [you low life worthless being who has to sell you body to make a living]". I'm not saying all people who use or are okay with prostitution think this, just that the supply of people who think this and act this way now find themselves able to openly go to prostitutes (where as the law, and fear of it, kept these assholes from using prostitutes before).

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#350

Post by jrs235 »

Noos wrote: post #311
jrs235 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume things got worse because cowardly assholes are now allowed to treat the prostitutes disrespectfully. Before, the assholes that were afraid of the law wouldn't risk going to a prostitute. Now that the law won't hurt them, they go and are demanding disrespectful assholes. Just a guess. Edit: law abiding != kind, respectful, or moral

It got worse because no one wants to be a prostitute, and there has always been a strong coercive element to women entering that profession. When you legalize, you increase demand while the supply is still capped, so coercion rises to compensate.

Interesting. Thank you for replying.
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