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Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

techblog.netflix.com

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Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#341

Post by dasil003 »

amelius wrote: post #290
dasil003 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

People have been recording the things they watch since the invention of the VCR. DRM will not have any impact on that. Someone will come along, and make a video-grabbing utility that bypasses the DRM. Also, many of the content is already available via bittorrent. DRM is pointless. But perhaps you are right about "browser vendors refusing to cooperate" not being the best possible approach. However, do you know what is…

A lot of geeks are under the misapprehension that the studios don't know this. But actually they are not idiots, they are fully aware of the sisyphean nature and ultimate futility of DRM.

The point of enforcing DRM is not to prevent piracy, but rather to flex their market clout and demonstrate control. As long as they put up moderate barriers to ripping, and as long as they have legal sanction to suppress productized piracy, the steady stream of new must-have content allows them to throw their weight around. Licensing streaming without DRM is a slippery slope that decreases the perceived value of their content. Small distributors will do it because they need to make whatever money they can, big distributors will never do it because it damages their brand.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#342

Post by xg15 »

derekp7 wrote: post #336
amelius wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been recording the things they watch since the invention of the VCR. DRM will not have any impact on that. Someone will come along, and make a video-grabbing utility that bypasses the DRM. Also, many of the content is already available via bittorrent. DRM is pointless. But perhaps you are right about "browser vendors refusing to cooperate" not being the best possible approach. However, do you know what is…

We somehow got away from DRM on audio. I was wondering how to do this for video too. What worked for audio, was that you had one vendor (Apple) that had a large enough market share. In order to sell DRMd media that worked on Ipods, the media companies had to sell through Apple. Or they could sell non-DRMd files that would still work on Ipods. They did the calculation, and figured they would make more money going non-…

> What worked for audio, was that you had one vendor (Apple) that had a large enough market share. In order to sell DRMd media that worked on Ipods, the media companies had to sell through Apple. Or they could sell non-DRMd files that would still work on Ipods.

Ironically, this scenario just got more unlikely, thanks to EME now being a standard and thus available for everyone... Hooray for web standards!

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#343

Post by dasil003 »

flukus wrote: post #297
dasil003 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

I think you're living in fantasy world where DRM actually works. Not once has DRM prevented me from watching a netflix show, it's only prevented me from watching it on netflix.

Wrong, neither I nor anyone in industry believes DRM "works" in that sense. You're misunderstanding the purpose of DRM, see my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13936576

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#344

Post by acdha »

usrusr wrote: post #302
blitmap wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is DRM has been used for more than digital rights management. We've seen it used to surveill the user and collect information - and restrict actions on the users' computer when it thinks you're doing something illicit (not allowing you to burn things to disc, restricting the ability to screenshot videos, uninstalling/deleting programs, adding rootkits, etc). Far outside the scope of providing authorized a…

From a purely consumerist standpoint, by far the biggest problem with DRM used to be how it was falsely advertised as selling copies, when it was in fact just temporary access that could end any day, even tomorrow (company/server shutdown, hardware token malfunction/loss, general incompatibility with new stuff). Now that "buying" has mostly been replaced by streaming subscriptions, this problem has disappeared: it is…

I think you've perfectly summed up the problem the average anti-DRM advocate has: it's pretty easy to get people riled up when they paid a noticeable amount of money to “buy” something which goes away. In contrast, the Netflix/Spotify model where you pay a modest amount of money for all-you-can-eat accesss is hard to get much traction with since nobody thought they owned a particular work and the total price is so much lower that few people care.

I can't decide whether this is bad or a sign of progress towards training people that DRMed content is not worth much.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#345

Post by pvg »

tptacek wrote: post #294
shmerl wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have recent ones too, as long as developers are willing to release DRM-free. I recently bought Torment: Tides of Numenera there.

What's the biggest title any developer has released direct (or "recent") to Gog without DRM?

Witcher 3, big AAA title about the adventures of a magical swordfighter who also gets laid. The twist is, the developer also happens to own GoG.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#346

Post by caf »

asdfgadsfgasfdg wrote: post #175
criddell wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, the DRM is still not standard. Only the interface to it is. Is a programming language a good analogy? The C++ spec says what a switch-statement should do, but nothing about how it must be implemented, right? > New browsers face a new barrier to entry It's not really a new barrier to entry though, is it? If I wrote a browser last year, were my chances of getting Netflix to support it better then than they are…

EME is a much bigger barrier than the old system of plugins. With plugins you implemented the right API for the silverlight plugin and netflix would work. In the future you need to not just implement the API but persuade someone to build the plugin for your browser and then persuade each individual DRM using site to work with your browser.

The CDM is just a plugin - on Firefox it's a Gecko Media Plugin, and it seems easier to implement the GMP API than the NPAPI for Silverlight, since it's a lot more restricted.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#347

Post by Silhouette »

derekp7 wrote: post #336
amelius wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been recording the things they watch since the invention of the VCR. DRM will not have any impact on that. Someone will come along, and make a video-grabbing utility that bypasses the DRM. Also, many of the content is already available via bittorrent. DRM is pointless. But perhaps you are right about "browser vendors refusing to cooperate" not being the best possible approach. However, do you know what is…

We somehow got away from DRM on audio. I was wondering how to do this for video too. What worked for audio, was that you had one vendor (Apple) that had a large enough market share. In order to sell DRMd media that worked on Ipods, the media companies had to sell through Apple. Or they could sell non-DRMd files that would still work on Ipods. They did the calculation, and figured they would make more money going non-…

We somehow got away from DRM on audio.

We got away from it with audio in part because a typical audio product such as a music single or short audiobook can viably be produced and sold DRM-free at a price so low that it's hardly worth anyone looking for it elsewhere even if they could find it literally for free. Unfortunately, the same economics don't work in most other markets.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#348

Post by schrodinger »

Silhouette wrote: post #339
amelius wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you think this DRM will stop? 1. People who have access to the content can usually see it over and over again (when they have a subscription to a service like Netflix). DRM will do nothing here. 2. People who don't have access to the content can't even see the DRM'ed version of the file, so DRM will do nothing here either. 3. People who want to pirate (illegally distribute) the content have advanced t…

1. People who have access to the content can usually see it over and over again (when they have a subscription to a service like Netflix). DRM will do nothing here. Sure it will. It will stop people writing a script to download as much as they can get away with in a single month and then cancelling since they have enough content to keep them going for several more months without paying for them. 3. People who want to…

There's always the analog loophole. If you can watch it on your screen, you can record it.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#349

Post by acdha »

Yver wrote: post #81
jasonmp85 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the world was better when Flash and Silverlight were the media of choice for delivering video.

How is that even an argument? That's a false dilemma. The choice isn't limited to binary blob Flash/Silverlight vs binary blob DRM plugin.

What other option was seriously on offer? I buy DRM-free music but the video options are extremely limited to a few committed proponents — I love them for that but it's like saying nobody should buy conventional agribusiness food because you can buy organic free-trade kombucha.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#350

Post by syshum »

tptacek wrote: post #263
matt4077 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browser makers have plenty leverage. A Firefox user watching Netflix will, and this is a tautology, be worse off if they cannot continue doing so. That may lead to people switching to other browsers more often than dropping Netflix subscriptions, but the costs for Netflix wouldn't be 0, and may even be substantial considering the population of people using Firefox is self-selected to those placing a high value on ope…

Not only is it not true that Netflix would cave if they didn't have native browser support, but we know it's not true, because Netflix for years relied on plugins to deliver over browsers. Meanwhile, every year that passes, browsers have less leverage as more Netflix subscribers get their content either on set-top boxes or mobile devices (where Netflix has total end-to-end control), and fewer are stuck with browsers.

>> because Netflix for years relied on plugins to deliver over browsers.

They still do, you have to have the Widevine PLUGIN and the Open H264 PLUGIN to play content on netflix

It is a pure myth that eme does not have plugins

>browsers have less leverage as more Netflix subscribers get their content either on set-top boxes or mobile devices (where Netflix has total end-to-end control), and fewer are stuck with browsers.

I am fine with that, I would rather have that than an HTML5 standard that requires binary plugins to work. I would rather have that then the risk EME brings to extent beyond video content to start having entire pages plugin bases, fonts DRM encumbered, and 100's of other consequences to this move that are coming

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