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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#341

Post by comments_db »

234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #338

This just confirms that H-1B visa is yet another piece of corporate welfare pushed through by lobbyists for the benefit of large corporations at the expense of small businesses and the middle class. My small software business can't compete with slave labor from India that large corporations with an army of lawyers can acquire. Just one of the many reasons that self-employment and small businesses are struggling again…

> ...slave labor from India... With that attitude, you don't deserve to work with the multi-cultural and multi-national diaspora of the software world.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#342

Post by beachwood23 »

234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #338

This just confirms that H-1B visa is yet another piece of corporate welfare pushed through by lobbyists for the benefit of large corporations at the expense of small businesses and the middle class. My small software business can't compete with slave labor from India that large corporations with an army of lawyers can acquire. Just one of the many reasons that self-employment and small businesses are struggling again…

That's a really interesting problem that I haven't thought as much about as I should. Do you know of any articles that cover the strangling of small businesses in more detail?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#343

Post by nashashmi »

I just want to put this out there: There are many fields outside of computer science and engineering where the average salary is not very high, and yet those fields have a desperate need of talent, not just because there is some niche thing only someone from outside can do, but also because the number of people going into the field are dangerously low.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#344

Post by [deleted] »

argv_empty wrote: post #151
conanbatt wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization. Not to mention the salaries of H1B employees are public, and that they are bound to a company meaning they have less bargaining power. And that the sampling is completely different, one is more of an homogeneous american citizen and the other is basically every country in the world, with varying degrees of know…

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization. It's not unionization. It's a simple case of letting the market decide who's got rare and valuable skills. If you don't command an unusually high salary, your skills aren't that rare or aren't so essential to the company.

[deleted]

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#345

Post by conanbatt »

argv_empty wrote: post #151
conanbatt wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization. Not to mention the salaries of H1B employees are public, and that they are bound to a company meaning they have less bargaining power. And that the sampling is completely different, one is more of an homogeneous american citizen and the other is basically every country in the world, with varying degrees of know…

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization. It's not unionization. It's a simple case of letting the market decide who's got rare and valuable skills. If you don't command an unusually high salary, your skills aren't that rare or aren't so essential to the company.

> It's a simple case of letting the market decide who's got rare and valuable skills.

With company-tied commitments, high transaction costs, lotteries, field of expertise limitations? Markets gone wild!

> If you don't command an unusually high salary, your skills aren't that rare or aren't so essential to the company.

This is a union-style wage argument. If the company would like to hire you below what the union makes, the company should not be able to and you would not qualify to work in this field.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#346

Post by doingmyting »

zeveb wrote: post #320
anarcticpuffin wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the arguments I see repeated here against hiring H1-B junior developers is that they: a) Aren't qualified as the best and brightest since they're still inexperienced b) Took a university seat from an American citizen [1] Firstly, my response to these is going to treat the $65k/year as a soon-to-be-solved problem. It's making the whole program look bad at the expense of talented people and the American economy,…

> As a country, we want the world's greatest minds to reside here. I'd say, rather, that as a country we (should) want the world's greatest minds to become American , not just reside here. I don't just mean in terms of legal citizenship, but rather in terms of mindset and culture. I don't think it's good for us to import smart people whose ideals are opposed to our own.

I tend to disagree with this line of thinking. You want minds that think outside the norm and not just blindly follow ideals. You want minds that, for e.g Sergey Brin of Google, who aren't only thinking America First but are instead thinking of how to move humanity as a whole forward. You want those minds residing here in the United States.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#347

Post by CodeSheikh »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Top visa recipients are these Indian companions. Just start browsing from year 2017 and backwards. This is very interesting. Numbers do not lie.

Example: Infosys 25k visas vs Google 4k, Apple 1.6k etc.

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2016-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2015-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#348

Post by usernametbd »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #238

Why don't we just stop accepting visa applications from Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys for one year and see how it unfolds? It will resolve the ongoing debate -- at lease prove it one way or another. From a candidate's point of view, I am all in for finding new opportunities in a foreign prosperous land. But gaming the system is not great for the local US economy. Maybe having a new visa category wit…

> Why don't we just stop accepting visa applications from Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys

It's not practical to do that. You can call them "Indian outsourcing firms", but on paper they are American companies too. Compiling such a black list of companies purely based on how many H-1B applications they've filed in the past is not a good idea. Because it'll just give unfair advantage to the other "outsourcing" companies like Tech Mahindra, who probably should have been on that list, but escaped the radar because of these other giants. So these companies will now top the list and they'll hire aggressively to replace TCS, Infosys and co.

So what is the solution? Hard to say. Raising the minimum wage is a good start, but the exact amount will have to vary state by state. Because, for example, $80000 per year is too small for the bay area, but a good salary in Texas, NC etc.

Another approach is provide an easier way to permanent residency for those who complete Masters or above in US. That will eliminate to some extent the mixing up the "Elon Musks and Sergey Brins" along with those abusing the system.

And for God's sake, allow H-4 dependents to work. It's hypocritical to expect high skilled people to work in your country, but they shouldn't be married to someone who wants to work. You are destroying livelihoods, careers and relationships by doing this.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#349

Post by trhway »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #267
freyr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

So by "these companies" you mean Facebook, Google, etc, because they are paying the going rate by paying $152k. That just confirms the OPs first point, that TCS, Wipro and Infosys, with their 30,000 Visas avg. ~$70k, are massively abusing the system. Its about time these companies were prosecuted for lying to the government: Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2…

>That just confirms the OPs first point, that TCS, Wipro and Infosys, with their 30,000 Visas avg. ~$70k, are massively abusing the system.

>Its about time these companies were prosecuted for lying to the government:

while they obviously abuse the system, i doubt they do it in immediately clear criminal ways - instead i suppose they use various loopholes like bringing people into some cattle grazing mid-states where $70K is prevailing wage (and where is real shortage of programmers, at least if you try to hire couple hundred or thousand of them in a short time, so technically these companies do follow the law here to the letter) and "bodyshopping" the people from there.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#350

Post by ep103 »

trhway wrote: post #349
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So by "these companies" you mean Facebook, Google, etc, because they are paying the going rate by paying $152k. That just confirms the OPs first point, that TCS, Wipro and Infosys, with their 30,000 Visas avg. ~$70k, are massively abusing the system. Its about time these companies were prosecuted for lying to the government: Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2…

>That just confirms the OPs first point, that TCS, Wipro and Infosys, with their 30,000 Visas avg. ~$70k, are massively abusing the system. >Its about time these companies were prosecuted for lying to the government: while they obviously abuse the system, i doubt they do it in immediately clear criminal ways - instead i suppose they use various loopholes like bringing people into some cattle grazing mid-states where…

Accenture literally buses people over national and state borders, so yes, its possible. Somehow I don't think that's much more legal though.
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