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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#151

Post by argv_empty »

conanbatt wrote: post #125
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization. Not to mention the salaries of H1B employees are public, and that they are bound to a company meaning they have less bargaining power. And that the sampling is completely different, one is more of an homogeneous american citizen and the other is basically every country in the world, with varying degrees of know…

Honestly, tying the qualification of H1B to salary only works as some sort of state-sponsored unionization.

It's not unionization. It's a simple case of letting the market decide who's got rare and valuable skills. If you don't command an unusually high salary, your skills aren't that rare or aren't so essential to the company.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#152

Post by anarcticpuffin »

bjornsing wrote: post #141
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

So isn't the obvious solution to move the allocation strategy from lottery to "auction" (highest payed employees get their visas first)?

There are a few solutions sloshing around at the moment. This article covers some of the levers in play: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/fixing-...

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#153

Post by didymospl »

mootothemax wrote: post #17
Swizec wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Slovenia an engineer with 10 years of experience makes $24,000/year. In Silicon Valley an engineer with 0.5 years of experience makes $100,000/year. Gee, I wonder why businesses want to employ foreigners and why foreigners want to work for US companies. Hmmmmm

>In Slovenia an engineer with 10 years of experience makes $24,000/year. >In Silicon Valley an engineer with 0.5 years of experience makes $100,000/year. Come on, you've got to compare like with like. In Montana, the median is ~$60,000, and in Georgia ~$80,000. [0] and [1] Here in Poland, I can find decent enough programmers who'll accept $2k/month salary. Their English will be poor, and typically they'll be based in…

>If I want to hire someone good in the capital city, Warsaw, I'll need to look at paying a minimum of $4-$5,000/month

Do you work at Google by any chance? I'd say a gross salary of $5000 is close to the ceiling pay for a developer in Poland, in Krakow/Wroclaw even $4000 is more than most employers would pay, not to mention your "middle of nowhere" [0] [1] And if you're looking for a remote worker what difference does their location make?

Sources(in Polish):

[0] http://gazetapraca.pl/gazetapraca/1,120733,16021624,Wysokie_...

[1] http://www.pulshr.pl/wynagrodzenia/place-w-polsce-2016-19-br...

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#154

Post by virmundi »

forgotAgain wrote: post #144

A constant theme for support of H-1B's is that they supply the US with an irreplaceable resource for starting new technical companies. Despite this I have not heard reference of any individual who came to this country on a H-1B visa to work for an Indian outsourcing company who later participated in a significant successful startup. Honest question, does anyone know an example of this having occurred?

I don't think that it has to be a startup. What I'd like to hear from actually high skilled people with skills beyond that found in the US. I think that the H1-B program makes sense if a company need nuclear scientist, etc.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#155

Post by koolba »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #104
koolba wrote: post #30

What's the argument against using an auction for H1-B visas rather than a lottery? That'd maximize the tax collected from their salaries and ensure the salaries are on par with the going rate for said workers. Arguably it's in the interests of everyone besides companies trying to get cheaper labor via H1-B visas. The only counterpoint I've ever heard is " It's not fair for company XYZ in low cost of living Podunk, US…

The points I've seen and agree with for an argument against an auction is: - It is a tacit acceptance of the falsehood that there is a skills shortage. - It ultimately relies on scarcity of visas. There will be a number of visas to auction off and this number will become a political football that is tweaked and tweaked until it is meaningless. What is the point of an auction if there are a million visas being auction…

> It is a tacit acceptance of the falsehood that there is a skills shortage.

The entire premise of the H1-B program is that there is a skills shortage. It's not specific to IT, it can be used for any field where you cannot find local talent.

> It ultimately relies on scarcity of visas. There will be a number of visas to auction off and this number will become a political football that is tweaked and tweaked until it is meaningless. What is the point of an auction if there are a million visas being auctioned off?

There's already a number of visas auctioned off. I don't see how the number is any more or less political if it changes to an auction based on salary.

> It does not address the corporate/education institution partnership loophole.

I don't know what you're referring to here. Please explain.

> Ultimately if they are the best and brightest the visas should be given to the employee not the employer and, if the employee wants, they should be put on a fast track to a green card as soon as they start (6 mo-1 year)

The visa already goes to the employee, not the employer. H1-B visa holders can move jobs if the new company is willing to take over the H1-B sponsorship (I think it's just a bunch of paperwork).

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#156

Post by jza00425 »

camus2 wrote: post #73
calvinbhai wrote: post #67

Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. Many countries have treaty work visas (Canada / Mexico citizens can work on TB visa) And those who study in US, if their employer starts green card process they can get their EAD before OPT expires. Only Indians and Chinese have to rely on h1b.

> Because citizens of countries other than india and china don't really need h1 visas to work in US. A complete lie. We in Europe are bound by the exact same rules as the Indians or the Chinese when it comes to immigration to US.

And you should.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#157

Post by maxxxxx »

0xfeba wrote: post #146
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Yup. I've said it before[1][2] and people just kept replying "Oh but we hire them for their talent, therefore everyone does." I work at a run of the mill SaaS company. We have 60% H-1Bs devs here as contractors from a certain contracting company (more in QA). They live paycheck to paycheck. I get paid, literally, twice as much (I've seen the H-1B Labor Condition Applications for ones we hire directly--The contracting…

"I've been on interview calls with ones from the contracting companies, all their resumes are the same"

That's starting to drive me nuts. We have to work with a limited set of contracting companies. Whenever we post a new job we get 20 of the same resumes. I usually immediately delete the ones that say "used try/catch statements" but other than that there is no way to distinguish between them.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#158

Post by nwenzel »

0xfeba wrote: post #146
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Yup. I've said it before[1][2] and people just kept replying "Oh but we hire them for their talent, therefore everyone does." I work at a run of the mill SaaS company. We have 60% H-1Bs devs here as contractors from a certain contracting company (more in QA). They live paycheck to paycheck. I get paid, literally, twice as much (I've seen the H-1B Labor Condition Applications for ones we hire directly--The contracting…

"The contracting companies pay likely about as much but take some 20% of their salary)."

Having worked as a contractor, I've seen that number typically between 33% and 50%. Staff Augmentation is a horrible, horrible business. The firms also end up stuffing the hiring managers inbox with a bunch of resumes of unqualified candidates to box out other competing firms. No one wins except the abusers of what could be a positive program.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#159

Post by fjdlwlv »

Eridrus wrote: post #150
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Before you get all indignant, note that you're comparing a median and average, and for income distributions like these the average will skew higher. Also, Google, etc, also hire non software people from overseas, you can see them in the H-1B salary data, making less than software engineers.

Anyone have a good summary chart that shows what roles are earning how much?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#160

Post by fjdlwlv »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #145
Panini_Jones wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software engineering positions at FB, Google, Etc., I make exactly the same amount as my U.S. peers who have also received offers. Moreover, how do you know that the SE level of the H1B hires is exactly that of the pool from which Indeed.com calculates their averages? Wha…

This gets to the crux of the issue with the H1B system as it relates to age discrimination. Why are we hiring fresh grads on a "best and brightest" visa? If the college degree from a US institution made them the best and brightest, why wasn't a citizen in that classroom seat? If they are truly geniuses why are they paid at entry level wages?

Maybe there were no citizens who passed the entrance requirements to that college
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